Hello all, Here's the deal: Gui Cavalcanti and Jenn Martinez are swing and blues dancers/instructors who live in Boston. They are also beyond cool cats, always ready to give 200% when it concerns things they desire, or people they love. In this case, those two things are the same thing:…
Originally posted Wednesday, February 10, 2010 (2 years ago)
Also, you never answered my question: If a concert generates $2/300,000 in revenue, who should get the money if not the artist?
And while I agree with you that there is a program called the San Francisco Jazz Festival, it is structured very differently from other fests around the world and hence only comparable to some of them. But you might be interested to know that the programming is often called some of the best in the world by all the major publications. And yes that includes being compared to Montreal, the old Newport/JVC, and other programs like Umbria, Vitoria, etc. SFJAZZ also presents a 4 to 5 months long Spring season and 3 months long summer season, making them completely incomparable to any other simple festival in the world. Only really comparable to Jazz at Lincoln Center, which is still very different seeing as they have their own venue, while SFJAZZ presents in various venues all over the Bay Area.
If you want to discuss this in even greater detail I'd be happy to take it off this thread because it's not relevant here.
But what is relevant is this: can you state what major/legendary artists get paid at festivals like Montreal and Newport/JVC? Since you brought them up to somehow challenge my assertion that big name artists get paid big bucks regularly, I'd love to know what you think are the rates at those shows.
Now, I know what they are. And they are often big. But you seem to want to challenge that, so feel free. You'll be wrong, of course. But it's a free internet, and you certainly won't be alone in the wrongly challenging category.
Originally posted Wednesday, February 10, 2010 (2 years ago)
Yes, San Fran has great programming... but it's the same artists as just about all the other jazz festival's, including RIJF. Jazz festivals are like a giant circuit; the musicians get shared among them because they're already traveling en route.
For example, Rochester often gets the same exact people playing in Montreal, because it's close by and only a week or two prior. Toronto's festival is sandwiched in between, so it's a nice easy travel plan. So, yeah, Rochester also gets compared favorably with Montreal's festival in national jazz publications and gets the same musicians traveling around (and yes, we've had the same musicians that SF has!).
I absolutely think the artists should get most of the money brought in from the concerts - and if their concerts are bringing in $300,000, I'm very hopeful that they should get a significant portion of it.
But I'm also guessing that the festival losses money presenting certain caliber artists in some of SF's smaller jazz venues (and certainly in some of the year-round programming that probably doesn't draw the same number of audience members as a three-week long jazz festival), and that large ticket prices for the headliners help offset that. I have no idea with SF, but most Jazz Fests also offer free outdoor concerts, so the money brought in through the headliners, with corporate and government support, help pay for those concerts as well.
It's not a simple one to one equation, when it comes to paying musicians for a concert during a Jazz Festival (year round or seasonal).
I don't know what a musician gets for being a headliner at Montreal or New Orleans, but I'm sure it's significant. But, do I think it's $100,000? Not unless it's a big band, like Jazz at Lincoln Center, where there are a whole lot of musicians to pay. Also, some jazz festivals run on reputation - it's an honor to play Montreal or New Orleans, and it ultimately helps spread a name around. For legends like Buddy Guy, it keeps them in the public eye long after their heyday passed.
I can't challenge the prices that SF pays for their musicians because I don't have their finances in front of me. But I would be willing to bet that only the most mainstream artists get close to the $75,000 and above mark for a single performance.
"If music be the food of love, play on!" - Shakespeare
Originally posted Wednesday, February 10, 2010 (2 years ago)
And we haven't even started talking about the costs associated with putting on concerts for a jazz festival. Sure, production costs: stage guys, sound guys, sound equipment, box office. How about administrative costs? Sure, you probably didn't make a huge salary, but it doesn't cost nothing to hire a administration of people to run the organization and to rent/buy the office space. Marketing is a HUGE expense. And... how about the cost of the venue itself? Perhaps the venues are given to the festival in goodwill as a non-profit in-kind gift, but I'm assuming it costs a pretty penny to rent out some of those large halls.
There's so much that goes into paying for a Jazz Festival past simply paying the musicians.
"If music be the food of love, play on!" - Shakespeare
Originally posted Wednesday, February 10, 2010 (2 years ago)
Blah, blah, blah... As I said, I'd be happy to discuss off the thread. Almost all of what you wrote is simply not relevant and totally derailing from the point.
My only points are: that $5,000 is actually a small amount of money to pay a legendary status artist, no-name wedding bands play for that kind of money (which is why wedding gigs are often how a working musician can make her/his rent), and that big name artists are often paid the kind of money quoted here in various situations.
I'm challenging your basic points from the start. And you haven't submitted anything to counter any of that.
Originally posted Wednesday, February 10, 2010 (2 years ago)
Edited on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:54 pm (2 years ago)
I have countered it, but I'm not going to reiterate points that you could read for yourself.
(Edited to reflect post below.)
He probably quoted this price to deter the couple from booking him for a wedding. And if he were serious about doing a wedding, he would quote something much less than $75,000. I don't think it's a reasonable amount based on what he would make for similar performances - SF Jazz festival excluded.
Props to the community for helping Gui and Jenn win a competition to help pay for him - it certainly would be cool to dance to his music live, especially if someone else is footing the bill.
"If music be the food of love, play on!" - Shakespeare
Originally posted Wednesday, February 10, 2010 (2 years ago)
After taking a closer look at his tour dates and venues, he is playing a number of high volume halls, not just clubs, so he's probably making a good deal more than $5,000 for those big gigs. As he deserves to. I rescind the amount - though I still don't think he's making $75,000/concert.
"If music be the food of love, play on!" - Shakespeare
Originally posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 (2 years ago)
Facebook shut down the link to the voting page claiming, "The link you are trying to visit has been reported as abusive by Facebook users." So, no more using a social network to get contacts to help their cause.
SUPPORT THE BRING BLUES TO GUI & JENN'S WEDDING COALITION!!!
Hello all, Here's the deal: Gui Cavalcanti and Jenn Martinez are swing and blues dancers/instructors who live in Boston. They are also beyond cool cats, always ready to give 200% when it concerns things they desire, or people they love. In this case, those two things are the same thing:…
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Really? Interesting. I'm so glad you're here to school us all. Whatever would we do without you.
Also, you never answered my question: If a concert generates $2/300,000 in revenue, who should get the money if not the artist?
And while I agree with you that there is a program called the San Francisco Jazz Festival, it is structured very differently from other fests around the world and hence only comparable to some of them. But you might be interested to know that the programming is often called some of the best in the world by all the major publications. And yes that includes being compared to Montreal, the old Newport/JVC, and other programs like Umbria, Vitoria, etc. SFJAZZ also presents a 4 to 5 months long Spring season and 3 months long summer season, making them completely incomparable to any other simple festival in the world. Only really comparable to Jazz at Lincoln Center, which is still very different seeing as they have their own venue, while SFJAZZ presents in various venues all over the Bay Area.
If you want to discuss this in even greater detail I'd be happy to take it off this thread because it's not relevant here.
But what is relevant is this: can you state what major/legendary artists get paid at festivals like Montreal and Newport/JVC? Since you brought them up to somehow challenge my assertion that big name artists get paid big bucks regularly, I'd love to know what you think are the rates at those shows.
Now, I know what they are. And they are often big. But you seem to want to challenge that, so feel free. You'll be wrong, of course. But it's a free internet, and you certainly won't be alone in the wrongly challenging category.
Yes, San Fran has great programming... but it's the same artists as just about all the other jazz festival's, including RIJF. Jazz festivals are like a giant circuit; the musicians get shared among them because they're already traveling en route.
For example, Rochester often gets the same exact people playing in Montreal, because it's close by and only a week or two prior. Toronto's festival is sandwiched in between, so it's a nice easy travel plan. So, yeah, Rochester also gets compared favorably with Montreal's festival in national jazz publications and gets the same musicians traveling around (and yes, we've had the same musicians that SF has!).
I absolutely think the artists should get most of the money brought in from the concerts - and if their concerts are bringing in $300,000, I'm very hopeful that they should get a significant portion of it.
But I'm also guessing that the festival losses money presenting certain caliber artists in some of SF's smaller jazz venues (and certainly in some of the year-round programming that probably doesn't draw the same number of audience members as a three-week long jazz festival), and that large ticket prices for the headliners help offset that. I have no idea with SF, but most Jazz Fests also offer free outdoor concerts, so the money brought in through the headliners, with corporate and government support, help pay for those concerts as well.
It's not a simple one to one equation, when it comes to paying musicians for a concert during a Jazz Festival (year round or seasonal).
I don't know what a musician gets for being a headliner at Montreal or New Orleans, but I'm sure it's significant. But, do I think it's $100,000? Not unless it's a big band, like Jazz at Lincoln Center, where there are a whole lot of musicians to pay. Also, some jazz festivals run on reputation - it's an honor to play Montreal or New Orleans, and it ultimately helps spread a name around. For legends like Buddy Guy, it keeps them in the public eye long after their heyday passed.
I can't challenge the prices that SF pays for their musicians because I don't have their finances in front of me. But I would be willing to bet that only the most mainstream artists get close to the $75,000 and above mark for a single performance.
"If music be the food of love, play on!" - Shakespeare
And we haven't even started talking about the costs associated with putting on concerts for a jazz festival. Sure, production costs: stage guys, sound guys, sound equipment, box office. How about administrative costs? Sure, you probably didn't make a huge salary, but it doesn't cost nothing to hire a administration of people to run the organization and to rent/buy the office space. Marketing is a HUGE expense. And... how about the cost of the venue itself? Perhaps the venues are given to the festival in goodwill as a non-profit in-kind gift, but I'm assuming it costs a pretty penny to rent out some of those large halls.
There's so much that goes into paying for a Jazz Festival past simply paying the musicians.
"If music be the food of love, play on!" - Shakespeare
Blah, blah, blah... As I said, I'd be happy to discuss off the thread. Almost all of what you wrote is simply not relevant and totally derailing from the point.
My only points are: that $5,000 is actually a small amount of money to pay a legendary status artist, no-name wedding bands play for that kind of money (which is why wedding gigs are often how a working musician can make her/his rent), and that big name artists are often paid the kind of money quoted here in various situations.
I'm challenging your basic points from the start. And you haven't submitted anything to counter any of that.
I have countered it, but I'm not going to reiterate points that you could read for yourself.
(Edited to reflect post below.)
He probably quoted this price to deter the couple from booking him for a wedding. And if he were serious about doing a wedding, he would quote something much less than $75,000. I don't think it's a reasonable amount based on what he would make for similar performances - SF Jazz festival excluded.
Props to the community for helping Gui and Jenn win a competition to help pay for him - it certainly would be cool to dance to his music live, especially if someone else is footing the bill.
"If music be the food of love, play on!" - Shakespeare
After taking a closer look at his tour dates and venues, he is playing a number of high volume halls, not just clubs, so he's probably making a good deal more than $5,000 for those big gigs. As he deserves to. I rescind the amount - though I still don't think he's making $75,000/concert.
"If music be the food of love, play on!" - Shakespeare
Well on a positive note about the original topic, they updated their profile picture to color so they don't get disqualified.
If you are bored check out my blog... http://taintwhatyoudo.wordpress.com/
And on another positive note, it looks like they have the most votes at the moment!!
Facebook shut down the link to the voting page claiming, "The link you are trying to visit has been reported as abusive by Facebook users." So, no more using a social network to get contacts to help their cause.
Hey everyone, just to let you know they're in 3rd right now! Let's help them out and get everyone we know to vote for them!
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