Three things:

1. You already cause a ruckus by commenting on the original Bill Borgida thread, reviving what had been a thread that had been dead for a month.

2. You refer to Bill as "disturbed" which not the most "neutral" language, as you suggest. I'm not sure that anyone short of his psychiatrist is in a position to diagnose him as such. He's being imprisoned for specific actions, not his mental state.

3. There's already a thread on community responses to create a safer scene here.

All that to say, you aren't starting on the strongest footing.

Side note:

Since "dancefancy" is just using that name to keep his/her anonymity, might I suggest a name change since there's already an active member of the community named "Fancy Dancy" just to avoid confusion. I wouldn't have a problem with the similarity if he/she was actually using that name normally (for example, Jester and CourtJester), but since it's just an alias I think it's a fair request.

Because it's not the same thing. Zeno and Zenin are both active members of the community who are actually known by those names online and IRL. I'm betting they both use those names in other places online. "dancefancy" made a point of saying that he/she is just using that name to keep their anonymity for this one thread. Therefore changing it shouldn't be a big deal.

Likewise, if someone suddenly appeared going by the name "Holidey," I wouldn't say anything if that was a name they actually wanted to be known by (say his/her last name was Dey or something). But if that person was using the name solely for the purpose of keeping their anonymity in a thread they started about why it's ok to pack heat at a dance event, I would probably make the same suggestion.

Avatars is another subject. But since we're on it anyway, I wouldn't mind if Zenin changed his just on principle. :)

To further clarify, this thread is intended as a forum for dancers to reveal incidents directly experienced or directly witnessed which involved substantially exploitive or illegal behavior bringing harm to another person. Consider posting your story if this will enhance your healing and/or improve others ability to protect themselves in the dance community. Try to avoid documenting: behavior deemed immoral; descriptions of reputation; rumor; second-hand information.

(Thank you for the useful thread "Creating a safe swing scene for Kids; Suggestions and Ideas" which is linked here and in the original Bill Borgida thread, but which has a different goal.)

This can be a safe place for dancers to document their experiences. Please consider how your post impacts on dancers posting sensitive personal history. Victims needn't meet a moving target standard of perfection to retain their rights, including their right to tell their story.

Here are two examples:

1. Mutual friends linked me, an out-of-towner, with a spare room at Bill Borgida's, with whom I was superficially acquainted. In the morning he entered the room, climbed into the bed, and made full body contact. This was unprompted and unwelcome which I made decidedly clear. In stark contrast to the boldness of his actions, he became meek and sheepish and represented this as a misunderstanding. (Notably, though less than a decade younger than Bill, I was typically mistaken to be 15-20 years younger than my actual age, with a very slight build characterized by friends as "like a teenager".)

2. Bill K. (last name unknown but of Greek origin) on several occasions touched private body parts, seemingly inadvertently. One occasion involved repeated incidents throughout a dance weekend. Checking with other dancers, I learned they had similar experiences with him. On the final occasion he spilled a beer down my front and groped me as he fumbled to respond to the 'accident'. Knowing by then his actions were definately intentional, I said I would gather evidence and have him arrested. He yelled out loudly, "she's crazy, she's f___ed up". I never saw him again in the local dance community.

Thank you for reference to above thread. I'd read/scanned the first few pages, but have now done so with the remainder of the posts. I see that several dancers posted specific incidents. I am grateful to all of those dancers and want to say thank you, and let you know I benefitted from reading your posts and learning about the range of ways you've coped with this sort of thing, even those of you who wish you'd mustered a more perfect response. (After all, self-condemnation is part of the nature of the beast.)

However the thread did not originally have the same intent as this one. This is intended for victims. And it lacked this crucial context:

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This can be a safe place for dancers to document their experiences. Please consider how your post impacts on dancers posting sensitive personal history. Victims needn't meet a moving target standard of perfection to retain their rights, including their right to tell their story.

Unfortunately, regarding the 1001 ways of blaming the victim, my eyes have been opened repeatedly in this society. (Digressing briefly: Among other reasons, many people work to preserve at any cost their self concept as invincible and immune to harm-some even after becoming victims.) This is why I used the term "safe" and defended victims rights before writing any details. It also explains my choice and recommendation of anonymity.

It remains to be seen if dancers will find this thread useful. If so, I am suggesting this be utilized to make public the nature and extent of exploitive, violating, and/or illegal incidents, rather than as a point/counter-point debate zone. We can choose if we interact with efforts to suppress expression (or blame the victim should it come up), even if baited.

I don't have a problem with the existence of a "venting" thread for victims of abuse, harassment, etc. within the Lindy scene, but I DO object to a thread that names names (including web handles) of the alleged perps.

In the case of Bill Borgida, there is no reason to name him in relation to any additional incidents. Bill, his reputation in the scene, his personal issues, the situation he faces now, and the larger implications of all of this for the Lindy scene and even society as a whole in general have been thoroughly discussed already.

Bringing up other incidents alleged to have been done by any additional people in the Lindy scene in the form of a warning to "watch out for this person" is even more problematic. At least Bill has been convicted of something. Remember, in our society people are innocent until proven guilty. And making unproven allegations about anyone here is libel.

To clarify: Several people in "the other threads" posted information on disturbing incidents that happened in their lives and how these incidents affected them, which was very useful for the discussion of larger issues. But as I recall, no proper names or website handles were mentioned in these threads identifying alleged perps besides that of a single person whose conviction in a court of law was already a matter of public record.

Let's keep it that way here and anywhere else on Yehoodi.

Response to Racetrack's post: I decided to simply refer to Yehoodi rules and parameters, but I agree with you on the whole, and was anticipating someone would delve into this problem. It's an extremely important aspect of any effort to use this public forum for support. So thank you for taking this on. In my first example I don't think my post differed from many others, except in it's specifics, ie names had already been named. On a personal note I had a need to reveal this story after having learned of these developments. So for me it was not beating a dead horse. I proceeded very cautiously and thoughtfully after reading the original thread in it's entirety, and spending many hours sorting through my feelings about my story in this context. I believe Bill forfeited some of his rights, but I don't think he should be the sole focus of what is a pervasive problem in the dance community and society at large. In my second example, since Bill's name and actions were spelled, out I felt it was somewhat unfair to withhold what I knew of the name in the other incident. But I'll admit I was relieved that I didn't know his full name and that he seems not to swing dance anymore, as this allowed me to proceed without solving this dilemma.

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I don't have a problem with the existence of a "venting" thread for victims of abuse, harassment, etc. within the Lindy scene, but I DO object to a thread that names names (including web handles) of the alleged perps.

I agree with you Racetrack. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure how well protected Rikomatic, Eff & Co. would be if actual defamation starts occurring. I.e., those with axes to grind start smearing innocent people by name--would it just be the poster in trouble or also the board managers, who sloppily allowed the defamation to occur?

My biggest complaint with Dance Fancy is the manner in which she is dumping legal risks on the Yehoodistrators for hosting potentially libelous statements while exempting herself from any legal risks should another person post a false accusation. If I shared Dance Factory's beliefs on the wisdom of such a thread, what I would do is start a blog and invite others to post, via blog comments or submissions, all accusations of sexual harrassment and even encourage people to name names. Then, I would go to Yehoodi and refer others to my blog to place those comments, not the Yehoodi forum itself. That way, Dance Fancy has a nice forum to list all the sexual harrassment accusations while the Yehoodistrators are completely protected from defamation charges. But she isn't doing that--why? Because she doesn't want to assume the risks of hosting libelous statements--that's something she wants to dump on Rik and Eff instead? How nice of her to volunteer them.

Myself, I don't like drunk drivers very much but you can bet that if I want to start a "Name Drunk Drivers Forum" it will be on my own website, referring Yehoodites to it to name names, rather that start a thread in Yehoodi to do the same. In other words, I would assume whatever legal risks that come from allowing people to post libelous statements, not obnoxiously put the Yehoodistrators in that position.