Racetrack, on the recent Beijing tourist thread, gave this sound advice:
Quote Still, keep your big city street smarts on anyway. Be especially careful of pickpockets - especially on the subway. (Inside pockets (as inside as possible) are especially useful for really important things like money, credit cards, passport, etc. These guys generally go for the low hanging fruit, so anything you do that makes you more of a challenge will most likely keep your possessions safe. :) )
For as long as I can remember, when American tourists travel overseas to Europe, or (in this case) Asia, we're told to watch out for pickpockets. But we're never told that when traveling within America to do the same. ("Oh--you're travelling to Chicago? Watch out for those pickpockets!!!") Just as surely as you'll be told not to drink the water if you go to Mexico you'll be told to watch out for pickpockets on your European trip.
Why is pickpocketing such a non-American thing that you don't need to worry about it stateside, why do we never give that admonition state-side? As best I can tell, perhaps it's because of a European tendency to place one's wallet in one's back pocket, sticking three inches out, while Americans generally place their wallet in their front pocket. Or, is it that American criminals are generally not as agile as their European counterparts, they're not as skilled at quickly grabbing a wallet when no one's looking?
Originally posted Thursday, July 29, 2010 (1 year ago)
Is there any empirical data to support the assumption that pick pockets are more common outside the U.S. (and Canada)? How does other forms of theft (muggings, break & enter, fraud, etc.) compare?
Assuming pick-pockets are more common elsewhere perhaps the explanation is that criminals are less afraid of getting caught and/or are more violent. In other words, is a criminal in Philadelphia more likely to pull a knife and demand your wallet than to distract you.
Also, perhaps the density of people has something to do with it. Pick pockets would rely on social engineering and distraction. That's hard to achieve when there aren't many people around.
Originally posted Thursday, July 29, 2010 (1 year ago)
Maybe it's because Americans can carry guns, and folks (legally) can't in most other parts of the world?
I think it is mostly to do with the fact that Americans know what to expect in the US, but not necessarily in other parts of the world, and foreign pickpockets may (?) operate differently in other parts of the world.
For example, I have never been robbed or pickpocked in the US. But, it has happened twice in Europe (Scotland and Spain). I think there is a lot of 'lets target the tourists' thing that happens (where tourists are very obvious due to accent/language), without having to worry about having a gun pulled in self protection.
I have no emperical evidence, though, just personal! Sorry...
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
Originally posted Thursday, July 29, 2010 (1 year ago)
High density population has a lot to do with this. Picking pockets is a crime that works best in places where people are packed in like sardines. People who are getting jostled constantly are less likely to notice a jostle accompanied by the lifting of a wallet or purse.
Large Asian cities are excellent places for finding over-packed subway trains. Many systems employ "pushers" whose job is to push people in through the doors when the trains are boarding. This guarantees that everybody inside the train will be in physical contact with people on all sides. Even in NYC the subways aren't as crowded as this (although they are crowded enough that I would be surprised if anyone told me pickpocketing is not a problem on the subways in the Big Apple).
Another factor in making the crime profile in the U.S. different from Asia and Western Europe is, quite frankly, the fact the U.S. has more of a violence issue. Gun violence is an old American tradition that goes back at least as far as the Old West where the combination of booze, guns, lots of guys and very few women (many of whom were prostitutes), and a general shortage of official law enforcement (and way too many marshals and sheriffs who at other times in their lives were in fact outlaws themselves) made firearms "the law of the West".
Today in the U.S. there are more guns on the street than you will find in most developed countries and the people that have them in poor urban areas too often tend to use them. Our laws even permit ownership of semi-automatic weapons by private citizens (which can easily be converted to fully automatic weapons).
All societies have a criminal element. Is it any surprise that societies that come down extremely hard on violent crime involving guns and knives and restrict private ownership of firearms have a larger percentage of criminals engaging is less violent criminal enterprises like picking pockets, con games and selling pirated DVD movies on street corners?
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having" - V
Originally posted Thursday, July 29, 2010 (1 year ago)
I'm pretty sure I have been warned to keep all my valuables out of easily accessible pockets going into bigger American cities... but I'm from a town of 8,000 people and my mom likes to worry.
More than that, though, I think some of the additional caution might be because it's traditionally been more of a jam if you get pickpocketed while abroad on a short trip? Getting a wallet stolen here's no great fun, of course... but overseas, if you don't have access to your bank or your passport or airplane ticket's gone or so on, it can be more of a pain just to get home.
Or at least it was. ATMs and modern debit cards and communications have probably made a lot of this obsolete, but I can remember feeling a little vulnerable my first couple times abroad.
no, it is still a problem. Because if your purse gets stolen, and you are dumb enough to have all of your important stuff inside, like I did years ago, you have no ID and thus no way to prove you are who you say you are, to your bank, police, consulate, etc, until someone at home mails or faxes a copy of a passport to you. And because you then need to cancel all of your cards, you don't have a way of getting money easily, because in most places to get money wired to you, you need a local bank to have the money put into.
This is why I always keep my passport attached to me, have several photocopies of it, and my family has the same, and I keep my credit and debit cards in separate places when I travel, now!
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
Quote ATMs and modern debit cards and communications have probably made a lot of this obsolete
If the debit card in your wallet gets stolen along with your cash, the ATM won't work. Not only that, the thieves out there are experts in figuring out ways to empty the bank accounts of people after they've stolen their debit cards (you can run most of them just like a credit card without using a PIN number for many kinds of transactions - and the bad guys have ways of hacking their way into finding out your PIN number as well). There is, in fact, a large international "underground business" that involves selling the numbers on stolen debit and credit cards to other unsavory characters to use for a variety of scams and identity theft schemes.
In other words, sometimes these new technologies actually make things worse by creating brand new criminal opportunities that society never had to deal with before.
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having" - V
Originally posted Tuesday, August 10, 2010 (1 year ago)
If Sharia law would be implemented in Europe, I'd guarantee you pickpocketing would no longer be an issue. The hand that steals is the hand that gets cut off, literally!
Originally posted Tuesday, August 10, 2010 (1 year ago)
I don't think that pickpocketing is more of an issue overseas than in the US because it's more common. It's an issue because of the consequences of losing your cash, credit cards, and ID. If you lose your wallet where you live, it's an inconvenience, but chances are you'll have little problem replacing what you need. If you lose your wallet in Nepal, chances are that getting a new credit card, replacement cash, and a Passport are going to be an enormous pain in the ass. Not to mention figuring out a way to find shelter and food.
... safe unless one ends up in the wrong neighborhood. :-/ I got mugged in Los Angeles while I was waiting for AAA, after my car had broken down in a bad part of town. Furthermore, in the same city, I have been victim of several petty crimes on different occasions and locations (a bike's wheel, my car side mirrors, a CD wallet with 30 of my favorite Swing CDs and other items all stolen).
On the other hand, I was never pickpocketed nor mugged in Italy, where I was born and raised.
Why pickpocketing just foreign?
Racetrack, on the recent Beijing tourist thread, gave this sound advice:
For as long as I can remember, when American tourists travel overseas to Europe, or (in this case) Asia, we're told to watch out for pickpockets. But we're never told that when traveling within America to do the same. ("Oh--you're travelling to Chicago? Watch out for those pickpockets!!!") Just as surely as you'll be told not to drink the water if you go to Mexico you'll be told to watch out for pickpockets on your European trip.
Why is pickpocketing such a non-American thing that you don't need to worry about it stateside, why do we never give that admonition state-side? As best I can tell, perhaps it's because of a European tendency to place one's wallet in one's back pocket, sticking three inches out, while Americans generally place their wallet in their front pocket. Or, is it that American criminals are generally not as agile as their European counterparts, they're not as skilled at quickly grabbing a wallet when no one's looking?
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Is there any empirical data to support the assumption that pick pockets are more common outside the U.S. (and Canada)? How does other forms of theft (muggings, break & enter, fraud, etc.) compare?
Assuming pick-pockets are more common elsewhere perhaps the explanation is that criminals are less afraid of getting caught and/or are more violent. In other words, is a criminal in Philadelphia more likely to pull a knife and demand your wallet than to distract you.
Also, perhaps the density of people has something to do with it. Pick pockets would rely on social engineering and distraction. That's hard to achieve when there aren't many people around.
Maybe it's because Americans can carry guns, and folks (legally) can't in most other parts of the world?
I think it is mostly to do with the fact that Americans know what to expect in the US, but not necessarily in other parts of the world, and foreign pickpockets may (?) operate differently in other parts of the world.
For example, I have never been robbed or pickpocked in the US. But, it has happened twice in Europe (Scotland and Spain). I think there is a lot of 'lets target the tourists' thing that happens (where tourists are very obvious due to accent/language), without having to worry about having a gun pulled in self protection.
I have no emperical evidence, though, just personal! Sorry...
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
Perhaps. Around here (Canadian prairies), the weapon of choice is likely a knife or pepper spray or just plain brute force.
High density population has a lot to do with this. Picking pockets is a crime that works best in places where people are packed in like sardines. People who are getting jostled constantly are less likely to notice a jostle accompanied by the lifting of a wallet or purse.
Large Asian cities are excellent places for finding over-packed subway trains. Many systems employ "pushers" whose job is to push people in through the doors when the trains are boarding. This guarantees that everybody inside the train will be in physical contact with people on all sides. Even in NYC the subways aren't as crowded as this (although they are crowded enough that I would be surprised if anyone told me pickpocketing is not a problem on the subways in the Big Apple).
Another factor in making the crime profile in the U.S. different from Asia and Western Europe is, quite frankly, the fact the U.S. has more of a violence issue. Gun violence is an old American tradition that goes back at least as far as the Old West where the combination of booze, guns, lots of guys and very few women (many of whom were prostitutes), and a general shortage of official law enforcement (and way too many marshals and sheriffs who at other times in their lives were in fact outlaws themselves) made firearms "the law of the West".
Today in the U.S. there are more guns on the street than you will find in most developed countries and the people that have them in poor urban areas too often tend to use them. Our laws even permit ownership of semi-automatic weapons by private citizens (which can easily be converted to fully automatic weapons).
All societies have a criminal element. Is it any surprise that societies that come down extremely hard on violent crime involving guns and knives and restrict private ownership of firearms have a larger percentage of criminals engaging is less violent criminal enterprises like picking pockets, con games and selling pirated DVD movies on street corners?
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having" - V
I'm pretty sure I have been warned to keep all my valuables out of easily accessible pockets going into bigger American cities... but I'm from a town of 8,000 people and my mom likes to worry.
More than that, though, I think some of the additional caution might be because it's traditionally been more of a jam if you get pickpocketed while abroad on a short trip? Getting a wallet stolen here's no great fun, of course... but overseas, if you don't have access to your bank or your passport or airplane ticket's gone or so on, it can be more of a pain just to get home.
Or at least it was. ATMs and modern debit cards and communications have probably made a lot of this obsolete, but I can remember feeling a little vulnerable my first couple times abroad.
New Yorkers don't pickpocket. We mug people. Big difference.
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no, it is still a problem. Because if your purse gets stolen, and you are dumb enough to have all of your important stuff inside, like I did years ago, you have no ID and thus no way to prove you are who you say you are, to your bank, police, consulate, etc, until someone at home mails or faxes a copy of a passport to you. And because you then need to cancel all of your cards, you don't have a way of getting money easily, because in most places to get money wired to you, you need a local bank to have the money put into.
This is why I always keep my passport attached to me, have several photocopies of it, and my family has the same, and I keep my credit and debit cards in separate places when I travel, now!
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
If the debit card in your wallet gets stolen along with your cash, the ATM won't work. Not only that, the thieves out there are experts in figuring out ways to empty the bank accounts of people after they've stolen their debit cards (you can run most of them just like a credit card without using a PIN number for many kinds of transactions - and the bad guys have ways of hacking their way into finding out your PIN number as well). There is, in fact, a large international "underground business" that involves selling the numbers on stolen debit and credit cards to other unsavory characters to use for a variety of scams and identity theft schemes.
In other words, sometimes these new technologies actually make things worse by creating brand new criminal opportunities that society never had to deal with before.
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having" - V
There's lots of things we don't need to worry about in the US. It's generally a safe place to live and walk around.
If Sharia law would be implemented in Europe, I'd guarantee you pickpocketing would no longer be an issue. The hand that steals is the hand that gets cut off, literally!
I don't think that pickpocketing is more of an issue overseas than in the US because it's more common. It's an issue because of the consequences of losing your cash, credit cards, and ID. If you lose your wallet where you live, it's an inconvenience, but chances are you'll have little problem replacing what you need. If you lose your wallet in Nepal, chances are that getting a new credit card, replacement cash, and a Passport are going to be an enormous pain in the ass. Not to mention figuring out a way to find shelter and food.
That's what I was going to write. I think that goes beyond New York. We are a just more violent, confrontational culture.
... safe unless one ends up in the wrong neighborhood. :-/ I got mugged in Los Angeles while I was waiting for AAA, after my car had broken down in a bad part of town. Furthermore, in the same city, I have been victim of several petty crimes on different occasions and locations (a bike's wheel, my car side mirrors, a CD wallet with 30 of my favorite Swing CDs and other items all stolen).
On the other hand, I was never pickpocketed nor mugged in Italy, where I was born and raised.
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