MadMabley, I deal with a similar situation. That being when I visit a lot of isolated venues in Central Pennsylvania, I get this attitude from some people.

To be honest, unless if you show up with a partner or have other Lindy Hoppers show up and dance usually the status quo remains be the same because it is what they are used to.

Personally when I am in those type of venues (I often get questions when I dance Collegiate Shag to be honest). I explain most of my inspiration for swing dancing comes from classic dancers like Frankie Manning, Ray Hirsch, Dean Collins, et cetera. While I try to explore new directions and add my own personality to my dancing, I still pay homage and attempt use the technique of those amazing dancers who came before me.

I wrote a bunch of stuff I/we've done to overcome a similar situation but lost it after I came back to proof read it.

The gist was you probably have to build a scene from scratch. Start with finding a like minded partner who is willing to learn Lindy Hop and can teach with you. Run classes and focus on attracting new dancers, not converting ballroom or other dancers.

Establish a web site that you can direct people to. Use youtube clips that are representative of our style to illustrate the dance. The Skye and Frida Twenty-Four Robbers clip was one of the most effective for me. Use google ads, Facebook and other means to direct people to the we site.

Go dance where the music is. If you can find good live music, you and your partner should go dance. People will ask about what you're doing, tell them, give them a card to find more information on your web site.

Once you start getting a few keeners, try talking them in to traveling with you and your partner to out of town workshops where they'll learn more and be inspired.

That'll get you started. It's a lot of work to build a new scene but the result can be very rewarding if you do it right.

As far as dancers of The Swing, don't focus on converting them but don't exclude them. They won't understand it until they do it. A couple of Louis Armstrong quotes summarize it: “There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them.” and “If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.”

Apache's points are spot on.

You mentioned them wanting to hear songs like In the Mood. I wouldn't fight them on this; go ahead and play that in your class along with Take the A Train and Mack the Knife and some Bill Haley. Let them be comfortable with music they know; save songs like Chartreuse and Ain't Nobody Hear But Us Chickens for a different time and space. You've got enough of an uphill battle.

My next recommendation will be somewhat controversial but it may be the most important thing you can do IMO. I've always felt that Lindy Hop instruction is badly flawed in the order in which topics are presented. I would in the very first beginner's class teach side-by-side Charleston. It's a very natural movement much easier and more natural than triple steps. It gets them dancing right away with a pulsing bounce. They'll be dancing on the & counts (small skip) without even knowing it. From there transition from side-to-side to hand-to-hand Charleston. After that you can begin more traditional things like the hideous backward rock step (anti-bounce) and simple passes.

Best of luck in your Kevin Baconesque endeavor!

Dave,

I think we need to focus on MadMabley's specific situation. It seems she's teaching mostly college kids in the hinterlands. College kids have lots of energy and a limited attention span. To get them hooked, I believe you have to choose music that somewhat matches that energy level. I definitely agree with you about neoswing and contemporary pop tunes. I feel songs like In the Mood, Take the A Train and Mack the Knife strike a nice compromise. I think Bill Haley stuff is where we might have a disagreement. I only mentioned it because college students really respond to it - always have and I suspect always will. I don't think they'll be forever corrupted if she plays Razzle Dazzle in one of her classes.

Regarding instruction, the best way to wring out that upright artificial bouncy style is IMO to start them with Lindy Charleston. First, you have to bend somewhat or you will lose your balance. Second, bounce in your dance is not a bad thing; it's the nature of the bounce. If danced properly, Lindy Hop will have an understated pulsing bounce in contrast to the "jivey" ballroom style. Again Charleston sequences foster that style and if you start students with it that "feel" will inform the rest of their learning IMHO. Also, learning the sequence I proposed (side-to-side transitioning into hand-to-hand) seems to me like it would be much more rewarding accomplishment to a student than, say, a rock step followed by an underarm pass.

...yah, not so much. Clearly you haven't witnessed "The Swing" in all its gory glory.

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I'd strongly disagree about the music. There was a debate on swingdjs.com about the topic. My stance is that playing something other than swing music, even with the intent of convincing people that swing music is better will ultimately make the scene dependent on that music and unable to change. The music is part of the appeal of the dance, it's move complex than rock music yet has a solid, driving rhythm that you can't help but move to.

As an individual, who has been a member of a college swing dance scene for about two and a half years and who has been organizing/teaching/DJing for a little over a year, I think this statement is an absolutely true.

You are always going to have the random newbie who thinks Zoot Suit Riot and the Pretzel are the "the coolest things evah!!111". How we lead our newbies who have a serious interest in the dance (and not just meeting new people) away from that path is they see our more experienced dancers who compete at regional Jack and Jills or even in some cases ILHC and pick up that actual swing dance music and technique are important if they want to improve.

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And in my experience, there's just no getting through to those people, and you will go down a rabbit hole of wasted effort. Sad but true, IMO you're better off appealing to a new audience.

In my experience, this statement is true as well. I've never seen people get away that attitude unless if you bring them out of their isolated area to an event where there are Lindy Hoppers, and usually its like pulling teeth to do so.

This might not sit well with the Lindy Hop purists, but I'll go ahead and say it anyway.

What real harm is there if someone wants to dance to Zoot Suit Riot? Or any song, for that matter? And if someone wants to learn to do a pretzel, what's the harm if they're enjoying dancing?

Everyone has their own tastes in music and most people don't appreciate being told that they can't like a certain song/band/genre/etc. Or that they can't do certain moves they've seen and think would be fun. If you go to these people and tell them that they have to dance to your music and dance your way, I can see why they would push back.

I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching people how to swing dance to whatever song makes them want to dance. While you're at it, you can mix in other song that you like and let them know why. And once they learn more about dancing, they may understand why certain songs work better for the dance (in your opinion). At that point, you might also be able to stress to them that there are certain moves that have reputations in the national dance scene. But you need to build up their enjoyment level and trust in you as a teacher first.

My view is that I'm happy when people are happy dancing. No matter if they want to dance to Zoot Suit Riot, or want to learn a pretzel, I can still teach them good basics and technique. Once you've put that foundation down, you can help broaden their interests, but first you have to let them enjoy themselves. Especially if there aren't a lot of models for lindy hop in the community that you're in.

If you just go in there saying they have to change their personal tastes in order to dance, they're going to be very turned off.

Sounds more like spontaneous combustion more than conversion! ;)

Well, they may come back in flames, which means they don't get to dance with us long.

But at least they go out in a blaze of glory!

The 3rd one I know as an "A" Lift.

I actually, would never ever teach any lift or jump move to a class in this situation, because it leads to "experimentation" by the target audience. The best policy is to say "no lifts or aerials on the dance floor. period." You can explain they are for performances or completions only, and leave it at that. This helps encourage a safe atmosphere with which to work.

As I live in the Inland Empire in Southern California, I'm all to familiar with this. Here's my opinion:

1) Start off by being an approachable and friendly person long before you take on the role of teacher. When it comes to "the swing" the people really think they know what they are doing, and you aren't going to change their mind about it. The best thing to do is just hang out with said people. Let them become your friends. Invite them to eat after dancing, which lots of Lindy Hoppers do, and just hang out and talk. As you become more friendly, start talking about what gets you excited about dancing. Start off a conversation like, "I just rewatched this video Hellzapoppin' that has the most amazing dancing, and I'm working on this (insert move, step, footwork etc.) from it." Or, "I just watched some videos from the International Lindy Hop Championships, and it really inspired me because . . ." This has the ability to create interest in the topic, without directly forcing them to watch videos.

2) There will be people with deaf ears, but definitely encourage a new audience. When I teach in my area, I always start with a short summary of the history of swing, that it came from partner charleston (demonstrate it), which changed into charleston break away swing out (demonstrate it), which changed into lindy hop (demnstrate it). Then explain the origin of East Coast Swing, and how it's used as a stepping stone for people interested in moving onto Lindy Hop. This puts the seed of knowledge into beginner's minds, and if they feel like persuing the dance further, they know where to look. Most people who come to a beginner lesson end up only going a couple of times and aren't interested in becoming "advanced" and they consider lindy to be advanced.

3) Bring a projector and show clips during the dance. No need to direct peoples attention to them, just let them play in the background, and some people will watch them and want to learn more. This way, even if people aren't the greatest dancers around, they are at least getting exposed to what Lindy is supposed to look like and the spirit it embraces.

4) Do Shim Sham, Big Apple, and other jazz dances. They aren't everyone's cup of tea, but doing any of these on a regular basis really exposes people to the structured side of jazz music and dancing. When you explain the history (choreographed by Frankie Manning, etc.) they might get interested in learning more. Hey, everybody loves doing Shorty Georges! And when I teach Shim Sham, I tell them about who Shorty was.

These are the things I've done to encourage more interest in Lindy, and its worked to some extent, but you'll always have people that are set in their ways.

Hold the phone, folks! I really appreciate all the advice about teaching and scene-building. I've been reading Yehoodi since as long as I've been dancing and have really enjoyed the wealth of knowledge your community already has on those topics. I've learned so much and your enthusiastic dedication to talking to me is great. Big love.

However. That's not really what I'm looking for. When I was an undergrad I founded and ran the swing club at this university and built a Lindy scene and took a team to competition and held dances with good music, brought in outside instructors and everything. We did great! And Yehoodi was invaluable back then with all this great advice.

However. That's not really what I'm looking for. I think my conundrum is much simpler. Here are things that occur:

1. I go to a dance with my friend. We dance. I ignore the [bleep!]ty music, ignore the yanky dancing, duck when someone throws a girl at my face. I try to have a good time and not worry about anyone else.

2. Someone comes up to me and asks me for a lesson. I'm not wearing a name tag, I'm not showing off. They just want a lesson from me because Lindy Hop is badass. I show them a few things, their friends come over and that's when the trouble starts.

3. They get in my business about rock-steps, pretzels, aerials, how girls can't lead, how this isn't swing and that's not swing and I end up having to defend myself, or end it unpleasantly by walking away or ending the interaction.

4. The same thing has occurred when I am invited by dance clubs to teach swing (the swing club, the ballroom club, whoever). They ask ME to teach them and then when I do, they get on my case about my music and my dancing. The students and the club organizers both interrupt the class to tell me that's not swing, show us the pretzel and some aerials.

I want to be able to explain to a hostile audience what's going on. I like the advice about showing clips. It's pretty easy to carry my little laptop around anyway. I have a big purse.

Any other advice on explaining Lindy Hop to a The Swing audience relatively quickly?

(I'm not scene-building, I'm just trying to go about my business and dance for fun. I enjoy teaching and have a background in secondary education and for the past seven years have taught in the regional Lindy Hop scene with good success when my schedule allows. I'm not a bad teacher and I'm enthusiastic, encouraging and very friendly about dancing. When people come with an open mind, they do GREAT. I'm not currently concerned with teaching or scene-building.)

(I am not Evita. :) Although I'd like to dance with her. The avatar's just a sweet photograph I found online.)

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4. The same thing has occurred when I am invited by dance clubs to teach swing (the swing club, the ballroom club, whoever). They ask ME to teach them and then when I do, they get on my case about my music and my dancing. The students and the club organizers both interrupt the class to tell me that's not swing, show us the pretzel and some aerials.

The way these people are acting are disrespectful, unprofessional, and rude.

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If they ask you a question and then get up in your business, you don't need to defend yourself. Anything from walking away to telling them to f*ck off seems perfectly appropriate to me. If they ask you to teach a class and then complain about your class content, be firm and tell them they can take or leave it. You're doing them a favor by sharing your knowledge. If they aren't interested in what you have to offer, they can hire someone else.

What Shana said is spot on. I've never had this situation happen to myself. Personally if I had anyone ever pull this on me, it would be immature but I would ask under what authority do they think they are right then proceed to verbally tear them apart. I have been in many lessons that I thought were incorrect, subpar, et cetera but I have never been arrogant enough to interrupt another person's class.

I completely get you. I have lived in a number of places (I've moved around a lot, and taught lindy in maybe every single one of those places), and almost all of them were focused on 'The Swing' rather than lindy hop. I created and ran a successful lindy hop club while in college, which pissed off the local people who did The Swing to crappy music. That was the only time that I had the energy to create an entirely new scene because of hostility from local dancers who were basically anti-lindy hop.

In every other place, I was invited to teach, and after one time of dealing with the things you talked about, decided it wasn't worth the effort to talk to deaf ears. If they think they know it all, when all they know is how to injure someone, they will never listen. No matter what. Unless they actively decide themselves. I tried 'converting' many people who did The Swing, and not once did it work.

The only approach that I found that worked was that if people asked me for lessons, I would tell them that I don't teach on the dance floor, but here is my number/card if you want to set up a private lesson. That worked wonders. At the beginning of the private lesson (or any group lesson, too), I would always show some really badass lindy hop clips to get them inspired, and tell them a little bit of the history of the dance.

But yeah, the kids who like to throw each other around on the dance floor are usually unteachable because they are unwilling knowitalls. I wouldn't bother with them. Teach private lessons, and the word will spread. If someone whp is influentual to the aerial arm jerkers learns lindy, they might as well, but until then, don't hold your breath.

Wow, yeah, that's a conundrum. I don't think there's much you can do about the know-it-alls.

The ballroom folks are probably quite knowledgeable about their subject. The only tactful, diplomatic thing I can think of is to explain that Lindy Hop has very technique and styling than ballroom styles, much like smooth and latin styles are very different from each other or International and American style used to be very different. They'll probably still think their way is the best and strongly disagree with your way. A pragmatic, honest, informed, open approach will at least underscore their narrow view and your wider understanding to an observer. Ballroom swing is not all arm-yanky, it just has an aesthetic that doesn't appeal to me and they don't often dance to the same kind of music I like.

"The Swing" crowd at a bar or nightclub is another story. That's a bunch of unsupported hubris. If they met Einstein, they'd probably tell him his physics is wrong and irrelevant. I prefer not to teach in a social setting but if it's someone I know well, I may. If some know-it-all got in my face, I'd humor them for about 30 seconds and then change the subject or get out of the situation. It's not worth arguing.

Folks,

I'm forwarding this PM I just received from a Mr. Yanky McYankerson. He doesn't sound very happy.

So that's it - you smugly tell me to f@ck off. Well backatcha! You know, I really don't want to hear boring lectures on the 1930s from you nerds. I'm in college and I just want to have some fun and meet babes. And speaking of fun, why must you haughty school marm types always go out of your way to rain on my parade? I want to dance to songs like In the Mood; it's energetic and it's got a catchy melody. I really don't care if you feel it's played out - it's not played out to me. Dudes, I'm only 20 years old. Put on your smoking jackets and ascot scarves and go into the library and listen to your bland old scratchy recordings all you like but don't force them on me. And why must you insist on grounding me like my parents used to do? You won't teach me a few of those lifts I saw on SYTYCD? Dudes, I'm not brittle boned like you aging hipsters. And what's with all the negativity towards my previous ballroom/swing teacher? She was this hot young Russian women who wore really tight sexy outfits whereas you guys show up in baggy pants and wear those silly hats. Now, if it's alright, would you snobs all go dance on the top of some flagpole and leave me alone? I've got a keg party to go to...The Yankster