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  Everyone is gay

According to cnn.com: " Massachusetts' highest court reiterated today that only full marriage rights for gay couples, not civil unions, would be constitutional. The ruling sets the stage for Massachusetts to become the first state in the nation to allow same-sex marriages. ".…

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  • Joined 2/7/01
  • 13635
  • Post #61
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "SwingTigress"
At first, I read the topic to this discussion and thought "Everyone is gay?!" What kind of thread IS this? But, quite honestly, I am appalled at some of the comments that have been made. I guess coming from the entertainment industry, I have always been surrounded with very supportive views on the topic of homosexuality... I don't know. But I find it so hard to believe that in this day and age there are people who still carry these bigoted views. I find myself almost at a loss for words and saddened while faced with this reality that even people that I find myself in the same social circle with share these awful opinions. I cannot even recall some of the comments that were made towards the beginning of this discussion (I am sure you know which I am speaking of) but rather, I recall the feeling it gave me in my stomach of sheer disgust. I truly feel sorry for those people who have closed themselves off from the WORLD. Basically, that is really what they've done. It's very sad. My hope is that someday they will see how close-minded they once were.

ST- As the great philosopher Bono once said, "Don't let the bastards grind you down."

Hopefully you can see that there are a lot more people in this thread who aren't bigoted and that those who are are a rather vociferous minority.

The velocity of Spanish is that many tables do not have sadness...

  • Joined 7/25/99
  • 8828
  • Post #62
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

I think Dan wants me! 8)

  • Joined 11/15/01
  • 3062
  • Post #63
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "c1950sboy"
I think Dan wants me! 8)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tina 8)

bluesSHOUT! 2010 is coming to Austin! http://www.bluesshout.com Favorite Tim Tebow-ism: Jesus opens presents on Tim Tebow's birthday. :)

  • Joined 10/9/00
  • 95
  • Post #64
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "swingchick20"
man to woman, woman to woman, or man to man. it's love. that's what is important. ignore the fact that it is "unnatural" :roll: what is more important is that now there can't be laws made to make the option of marriage illegal.

Incidentally, there are plenty of instances of same-sex relations found in nature. Maybe you meant, "less common?"

  • Joined 10/9/00
  • 95
  • Post #65
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

The question of polygamy is interesting...

While there are valid reason for providing a break for people who are raising children, I've always thought that having [i]any[i] benefits for marriage/union/etc people discriminates against people who want to stay single.

Yeah. So there.

  • Joined 6/5/03
  • 33
  • Post #66
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "Mugsy Malone"
[img] Oh, sorry. I thought this thread was called "Everyone is gray". Back to your regularly scheduled small-minded postings by Dan2513!

Why is anyone who disagrees small minded? Some of us look at the options and make an informed decision.

As an aside, I attended a Michael Moore "Liberals Rule, Conservatives Drool" speaking engagement in Portland. I was disappointed to hear the same "Right Wing this, Left wing that crap" I've heard in church. To see the same response, wild cheers and standing ovations it felt like a good 'ol Pentecostal service. I wish each side could see the other and note the obvious mirrors. The important thing is to fight for what you believe in.

  • Joined 7/20/99
  • 6220
  • Post #67
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "arainford"
Quoted from "Mugsy Malone"
[img] Oh, sorry. I thought this thread was called "Everyone is gray". Back to your regularly scheduled small-minded postings by Dan2513!
Why is anyone who disagrees small minded? Some of us look at the options and make an informed decision. As an aside, I attended a Michael Moore "Liberals Rule, Conservatives Drool" speaking engagement in Portland. I was disappointed to hear the same "Right Wing this, Left wing that crap" I've heard in church. To see the same response, wild cheers and standing ovations it felt like a good 'ol Pentecostal service. I wish each side could see the other and note the obvious mirrors. The important thing is to fight for what you believe in.

Except for the problem with "fighting for what you believe in" in this case is that people who disagree with gay marriage - or whatever you want to call it - being legal are telling other people how to live their personal lives. Which clearly goes against everything the American government claims to be about.

It all well and good to fight for what YOU believe in for YOU but it's not ok, based on the belief system of the American government, to get in the way of someone else's pursuit of happiness.

And that's why this issue is such a big deal.

  • Joined 11/20/00
  • 16167
  • Post #68
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

(edited because I was so incensed I was raving and less than coherent)

Dan is small minded because he only recognizes marriage in a traditional orthodox Judeo-Christian paradigm. It doesn't matter what arguments are presented to him - unless he changes his definition of marriage, same sex marriages will not, and can not exist.

Any social Anthropologists out there?

Read up on your history of Sparta. Same sex relationships were favored over male/female unions. In fact, for a make in the army, it was mandatory.

There are many cultures (yes, in this day and age) that allow polygamy. I guess that's okay, since it fits in the male/(many)female paradigm?

(Of course, being the heathen that I am, I myself would opt for a civil union or domestic partnership over a marriage, which is, at least in the country, steeped in Judeo-Christian traditions and meanings. Bleh.)

  • Joined 7/25/99
  • 8828
  • Post #69
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

Dan no hot monkey love w/o a ring first!

  • Joined 6/8/00
  • 4899
  • Post #70
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "c1950sboy"
Dan no hot monkey love w/o a ring first!

you mean....none of this...

?????

  • Joined 11/20/00
  • 16167
  • Post #71
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

Although, if the objection to same sex "marriages" is that biblically speaking, married couples were supposed to be fruitful and multiply; then same sex marriages should be allowed. There is nothing to stop gay couples from having (and I don't mean adopting children).

In a male-male marriage, each father could donate firm and the child be carried by a surrogate mother. Their seed would have multiplied. In a female-female marriage, either partner (or both) could use sperm donors and carry a child to birth.

Christianity does not prohibit surrogate parenting, or sperm banks, so I can't see why either method would be objectionable in a same sex marriage.

  • Joined 10/18/01
  • 721
  • Post #72
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

Ah, but RubyMae and Mouth and company, you use a thing called logic. The people opposing gay marriage don't use this logic in the same way. They primarily use their "faith" as their defense, which is entirely unfounded in logic. :roll:

(I'm usually so careful to avoid these types of threads, am I going to get myself in trouble here?)

  • Joined 11/20/00
  • 16167
  • Post #73
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "karaboo"
Ah, but RubyMae and Mouth and company, you use a thing called logic. The people opposing gay marriage don't use this logic in the same way. They primarily use their "faith" as their defense, which is entirely unfounded in logic. :roll: (I'm usually so careful to avoid these types of threads, am I going to get myself in trouble here?)

I agree, which is why I pointed out that Dan is small minded. It doesn't matter how cogent the arguments are in favor of gay marriage. As long as he defines marrige by Judeo-Christian values, then gay marriage can't exist.

  • Joined 6/5/03
  • 33
  • Post #74
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "RubyMae"
It's small-minded because the thought of gay marriage so troubles them, even though no one says they have to marry someone of the same sex.

What troubles me is the idea that I have to "treat with dignity &amp; respect" VALUES that I disagree with because it legislated/documented. I believe in each person's right to make their own choices. The problem is when I am &lt;required&gt; to support those choices. It seems the latest thing is always in my face: take it or take it. How can anyone escape mob/media mentality? How does anything change when moms &amp; pops in every state USA raise their kids in fear of the unknown and fear of things that are different? Unfortunately, with the choas out there, how does one avoid raising kids in fear to become adults livng in fear, who then make the poorest of choices (consider the death of Matthew Sheppard).

  • Joined 10/18/01
  • 721
  • Post #75
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

You are not "required" to support them. You are merely "required" not to interfere with people living theire lives as they see fit (who are, incidentally, not interfering with you living your life as you see fit). You do not have to like it, you do not have to think about it if you don't want to, you merely have to allow people the freedom to do as they wish as long as they don't directly interfere with your life. Fundamental freedom and equal protection under the law are the issues here, not your personal religious beliefs or moral values.

I'm with mouth: call it whatever you want, civil union, etc., and save the word "marriage" for the religious if you want, but the need for a legal recognition of gay "commitment" is clear.

  • Joined 7/25/99
  • 8828
  • Post #76
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

What Kara said! What alot of the naysayers seem to forget and the reason gay marriage should be legal is involved. Alot of straight people love to argue againsr it, as others said, based on religious factors. Don't forget in alot of places, when a hay person's partner dies they cannot make any claims for insurance, they cannot be put on their partners health plan. I believe gay people in commited relationships need these rights also. When 9/11 happened it was all this woman that lost her partner in the attack could do to make a claim on the money that was literally being thrown at straight people. Now Dan, where's the ring?!

  • Joined 5/10/00
  • 3791
  • Post #77
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "c1950sboy"
Quoted from "Dan2513"
Massachusetts might "allow" so-called "same sex marriages," but that doesn't mean they are going to happen any more than Massachusetts allowing dogs to give birth to monkeys means that that is going to happen. Marriage MEANS "a life-long commitment between a man and woman to love and care for each other." Now if gays want to make a life-long commitment to love and care for each other, fine. But it is not marriage.
Dude did you take a strange pill today?

Today?

  • Joined 5/10/00
  • 3791
  • Post #78
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "c1950sboy"
OK now the question is....who should I marry? 8)

I think that you should marry Dan if he promises to shave his avatar! Maybe he needs a beard! He wants you!

  • Joined 1/30/00
  • 6375
  • Post #79
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "Zev"
Quoted from "mouth"
Who feels sorry for Dan...?
Who feels sorry for all of you who keep taking his bait? Do you really think someone really is philosophically inclined AND still believes all that sh t he posts around here? It's really to bad the Monty Python "I Want To Buy An Argument" business doesn't exist, he would spend all his free time there.

Good point. Can anyone vouch for the real life 3d Dan? Is he the same as the yehoodi rightwing dan?

  • Joined 9/23/99
  • 22695
  • Post #80
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

Everybody is gay.

-Eff

  • Joined 9/23/99
  • 22695
  • Post #81
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

At Frim Fram I was contemplating this thread title. I like this thread title.

To me it means: lots of folks are gay/bi/lesbian/questioning. Everybody knows someone who is g/b/l/q. Whether they know they know someone, or not.

And g/b/l/q folks are just like everyone else. Ya know, except for one very detail, the gender they are attracted to.

Anyway, -Eff

  • Joined 9/23/99
  • 22695
  • Post #82
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

This just in from cnn.com:

"Ohio Gov. Bob Taft approved one of the country's most-far reaching gay-marriage bans on Friday, saying its adoption was urgent because the nation's first legally sanctioned same-sex weddings could take place as early as this spring in Massachusetts.

Ohio will become the 38th state to adopt a "defense of marriage act" and the second to deny benefits to some employees' partners."

This issue is definately heading to the Supreme Court. How exciting!

-Eff

  • Joined 2/7/01
  • 13635
  • Post #83
  • Originally posted Friday, February 6, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "arainford"
I believe in each person's right to make their own choices. The problem is when I am &lt;required&gt; to support those choices.

As far as I know the proposed law will not require you to send a wedding present to every gay couple getting married.

The velocity of Spanish is that many tables do not have sadness...

  • Joined 6/8/00
  • 4899
  • Post #84
  • Originally posted Saturday, February 7, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "Dan2513"
Marriage MEANS "a life-long commitment between a man and woman to love and care for each other." Now if gays want to make a life-long commitment to love and care for each other, fine. But it is not marriage.

I thought it meant a UNION of two lives/souls/people/etc. I didn't know it meant the union of a man AND a woman and only that.

and the last I checked....the Pope is some old guy living overseas (ie NOT you.) and the messiah still hasn't arrived yet (again, NOT you). and the president of the US was GWB (ie NOT you). so...where do you come off defining the term marriage? (whether on a religious basis or a legal basis).

now...I could be wrong...it could easily state the definition of marriage on the front page of the bible or in some law book supporting your definition/views. I dunno.

  • Joined 7/20/03
  • 4033
  • Post #85
  • Originally posted Saturday, February 7, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "mouth"
Dan I tried to honor, respect, and understand your opinion by thinking about how I would feel if my religious beliefs and traditions were being challenged by others. And I do understand that must feel horrible. But I cannot understand you insulting and disrespecting other people's belief systems, choices, lifestyles. If you want your ideas respected then you must respect others.

How did I insult or disrespect anyone's belief system? All I did was state a fact about what marriage means. That's it. If someone's belief system, choice or lifestyle entails that 2 2=3, does stating the truth that 2 2=4 mean I'm insulting them?

Quoted from "mouth"
I don't want to tell you how to live your life. Why do you want to tell me how to live mine? I simply don't get it.

That's right. You simply don't get it. I never said that gay people shouldn't have relationships. I never even said they shouldn't make lifelong commitments to each other and have ceremonies. I'm just saying that it isn't marriage, and there are even plenty of gay people who agree with that. Dang, there are too many people here who are hypersensitive.

  • Joined 7/20/03
  • 4033
  • Post #86
  • Originally posted Saturday, February 7, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "RubyMae"
Read up on your history of Sparta. Same sex relationships were favored over male/female unions. In fact, for a make in the army, it was mandatory.

Yes, they were. Now please provide evidence that these same sex relationships were considered marriage.

It's hard to believe that so many people are wildly missing the point. Let me break it down in terms of Family-Genus-Species. I view marriage as being a genus. It means a life-long commitment between a man and a woman. I can see there being species of marriage like one-man-one-woman, polygamy, etc. The genus marriage is part of the family "life-long commitment." Also in this family is the separate genus "gay life-long commitment." That's all I'm saying. But unfortunately, a few hypersensitive flaming liberals would rather get all riled up and accuse me of their standard list of thought-police charges like "insensitivity" and "close-mindedness" than address what I actually said.

  • Joined 7/20/03
  • 4033
  • Post #87
  • Originally posted Saturday, February 7, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "dennisrodman"
Quoted from "Dan2513"
Marriage MEANS "a life-long commitment between a man and woman to love and care for each other." Now if gays want to make a life-long commitment to love and care for each other, fine. But it is not marriage.
I thought it meant a UNION of two lives/souls/people/etc. I didn't know it meant the union of a man AND a woman and only that. and the last I checked....the Pope is some old guy living overseas (ie NOT you.) and the messiah still hasn't arrived yet (again, NOT you). and the president of the US was GWB (ie NOT you). so...where do you come off defining the term marriage? (whether on a religious basis or a legal basis). now...I could be wrong...it could easily state the definition of marriage on the front page of the bible or in some law book supporting your definition/views. I dunno.

marriage

Mar"riage, n. [OE. mariage, F. mariage. See Marry, v. t.] 1. The act of marrying, or the state of being married; legal union of a man and a woman for life, as husband and wife; wedlock; matrimony.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

  • Joined 6/8/00
  • 4899
  • Post #88
  • Originally posted Saturday, February 7, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "Dan2513"
marriage Mar"riage, n. [OE. mariage, F. mariage. See Marry, v. t.] 1. The act of marrying, or the state of being married; legal union of a man and a woman for life, as husband and wife; wedlock; matrimony. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

well, if you're going by webster....this is the definition I got online....

Main Entry: mar riage Pronunciation: 'mer-ij, 'ma-rij Function: noun Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry 1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage &lt;same-sex marriage&gt; b : the mutual relation of married persons : WEDLOCK c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage

Source: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&amp;va=marriage

  • Joined 9/23/99
  • 22695
  • Post #89
  • Originally posted Saturday, February 7, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)

"But unfortunately, a few hypersensitive flaming liberals would rather get all riled up..."

Check your PMs Dan.

-Eff

  • Joined 2/7/01
  • 13635
  • Post #90
  • Originally posted Saturday, February 7, 2004 (Over 10 years ago)
Quoted from "dennisrodman"
and the last I checked.... and the president of the US was GWB

Well that's open to debate! :wink:

The velocity of Spanish is that many tables do not have sadness...

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