Ah, wassa matta? You no like shag joke? Shag joke funny, no creepy!! Now, who wanna shag me? Heh heh.

Quoted from "RaleighRob"
Lemme start with a disclaimer: The complaint below is only about a small percentage of our scene. Everyone else is pretty much fun, friendly, welcoming, etc. And the scene is really starting to blossom, which has me pretty excited. That said, we've got a couple of creepy leads that are starting to scare away some of the new follows. One lead (I'll call him William, not his real name) has been dancing a long time, but is just really socially unaware. He's got a yanky lead, he's weird and scary and doesn't know how to take 'no' for an answer. In college, he was called 'Crazy Bill' behind his back. In our scene, we call him 'Scary William'. A couple of people have tried talking to him about this, but the more comfortable he is with you, the weirder he gets. The other lead? In a thread on our local board about why we dance, he posted, "I would add Chicks, chicks & chicks and just not chicks - most of these swing dancing chicks have class" and "It gives the chance to get physically close to the chicks. Kick, kick, backstep - I would love to do that all night long without getting bored. Ahhhh, that feels soooo good." And since our lindy night is held at a carolina shag club, he's been known to try creepy Austin Powers "shag" jokes with women he's just met. Most of the women at our venue won't dance with him or even talk to him. There's no chance of changing this guy, by the way. English isn't his first language, so we tried to give him the benefit of the doubt on his 'chicks' posts. He responded with more of the same. I'm sure every scene has their creeps. We're trying to grow a scene here. What can we do to minimize the damage these guys do?

Ask him to leave. We recently had an incident in one of our venues where we've escorted the guy out and told him that he was not welcome back anymore. He was making follows feel uncomfortable and harassed...which noone should've to put up with.

Another approach that we've been doing is to be more proactive about "protecting" the follows. I would usually go up to a bunch of new follows after I've seen them get harassed by some of the creepy leads and just let them know that if they get harassed again to please come and get me. They seemed to feel more at ease after that... knowing someone is looking out for them.

P.

Ick!

Yes, go rescue them. Introduce new follows to the non creepy leads.

Quoted from "RaleighRob"
The other lead? In a thread on our local board about why we dance, he posted, "I would add Chicks, chicks & chicks and just not chicks - most of these swing dancing chicks have class" and "It gives the chance to get physically close to the chicks. Kick, kick, backstep - I would love to do that all night long without getting bored. Ahhhh, that feels soooo good." And since our lindy night is held at a carolina shag club, he's been known to try creepy Austin Powers "shag" jokes with women he's just met.

:pukeymae:

I really try and give the "creepy guys" the benefit of the doubt. Most of the guys that I hear called creepy are hardly that at all...most of them are just misunderstood or just lack social skills (or both). I was not good in social settings when I started and it took me time to learn, some people just don't know how to develop social graces.

Now, beyond the lacking of social skills into saying inappropriate comments is different. I would first approach them and say, listen, I (and most people) do not like your comments. If that fails to work, then you have to take action.

Example: We had an older guy (around 50) in our scene that is also not from the US (language and culture barrier). He would go up to young girls (17-22) and ask them to dance, then afterwards tell them how beautiful he thought they were, and on a few occasions ask them out. I had several girls tell me he was creeping them out and making them feel uncomfortable. I told him that it was inappropriate and and tried to do so in a way as to tell him it may be acceptable where he is from, but not here but he still continued on with it. Well, now he is not allowed at our main venue, and any other venue he goes to, he has the leads watching him like attack dogs.

Can we open this can of worms about creepy follows, too?

wex, you say that as if we have no creepies in new york!

I have this sudden knot in my stomach...

RR, it ain't just the south. We've had so many thread about the NYC creepies, it's not funny. We have guys who've injured multiple girls and refuse to stop throwing dangerous aerials with unsuspecting partners. All the regulars and some organizers know who these guys are yet they still show up, week after week.

Quoted from "RaleighRob"
Also, it's the south, so we tend to be hospitable to a fault. I don't know if we have the balls to ban someone.

And that's what the creepy folks count on.

No offense, but not EVERYONE in the South is "hospitable to a fault". Some of us are quite assertive when the occasion warrants.

Not always a Southern Belle, Tina 8)

Quoted from "mouth"
If you've already tried befriending the person and talking to them about it then you don't have many "nice" choices left. Which leads me to this suggestion: Make them as uncomfortable as they make other people. As a group, refuse to dance with them flat out, refuse to chat with them, don't say hi, and when they do, make sure to make a point of moving away from them. Be obvious about how you are not interested in anything they have to offer. If this prompts them to inquire about what's going on then try one last time to be nice and explain why their behavior offends and how they can change to be better and be more liked. If they are a lost cause then no one will miss them when they stop coming around because their payoff has been taken away. I've found that when a guy is in the scene to only get some play, and then doesn't, he soon leaves. The same is true for all payoffs. If someone wants something and can't get it, they'll go somewhere else to find it. People will call me harsh for saying these things but I only suggest this when all else has failed and no matter what you do you can't express to the person what's wrong and how to change. Anyway, that's my mouth-y suggestion... :wink:

This just smacks a little too much of high school cliques and the in-crowd mentality that often plagues this scene. He's not your cup of tea, then don't dance with him. If you see a distressed newbie, after the dance explain to the follow that it's ok to say no and she/he shouldn't have to dance with anyone she/he doesn't want to dance with.

What you may find icky, some other follow may think is heaven. Give the newbies the power to choose for themselves by explaining that it's ok to say no to a dance, but don't choose their partners for them.

Quoted from "Yoda"

Quoted from "Torx Quirx"
Can we open this can of worms about creepy follows, too?

Yeah...that Liv E Uh girl is pretty creepy. Is she trying to play mind games or something? She keeps on saying something to me about a monkey in a park...is she saying she wants to have sex with me in a park?

Keep dreaming Yoda :lol:

Quoted from "Yoda"
I was not good in social settings when I started..

Yeah Yoda, I have to say that you really creeped out most of us...especially when you spoke intelligently, and worst of all, danced beautifully!! Ewwwww!!!! Grody!!! Everyone was freaked out by you! I only hung out with you because I was trying to keep you away from all of the cool people. They paid me a lot of money too! Now that I've moved, the people in Denver really can't take your creepiness anymore, so I guess you have no choice but to move to New York also. I'm sorry to have to inform you of this in such a public manner.

It's amazing how many follows (even ones who are definitely not newbies) are not comfortable turning down an invitation to dance. They tend, instead, to circle the wagons and pretend to be in deep conversation with others, or run to the rest room, etc, when the 'less than desirable' leader approaches. It's okay to decline politely. Honest.

Quoted from "RubyMae"
This just smacks a little too much of high school cliques and the in-crowd mentality that often plagues this scene. He's not your cup of tea, then don't dance with him. If you see a distressed newbie, after the dance explain to the follow that it's ok to say no and she/he shouldn't have to dance with anyone she/he doesn't want to dance with. What you may find icky, some other follow may think is heaven. Give the newbies the power to choose for themselves by explaining that it's ok to say no to a dance, but don't choose their partners for them.

Agree.

Some nights it feels like the Lindy scene's not just a bunch of people who knew each other in high school--it's a bunch of people who are determined to continue the worst excesses from high school ... except with better dancing, better music, a bartender, nicer cars, and legal IDs. In some scenes, you're a creepy guy if you're someone who wasn't there 5 years ago through no fault of your own or, because you learned somewhere else, your style doesn't match completely gel with what the follows expect from the leads who have been there for years. So, any new lead to the scene (even if not to dancing in general) is treated like a party crasher until proven otherwise ... and some remain in that state no matter what.

Think this one of the reasons why some scenes complain about losing attendance?

-= SLEEPLESS NIGHTS =-

Quoted from "oopsmybad"
wex, you say that as if we have no creepies in new york!

Oh there are plenty of creeps in New York...both male and female. However, I think New York is intrinsically better equipped to handle creepy people.

Women in New York generally have more skill and practice dealing with these things.

The women in the scene quickly point out to new follows whom to be weary about. NYC follows have even outed creeps on this very board. And leads and follows are pretty good at C K blocking these guys.

At least to my knowlege, there are only one or two creepy guys who venture out from Irving Plaza. And at the end of the day, their behavior is within reasonable limits. No one has felt that it is so bad as to take any further steps than have already been taken.