Protestant/Weekly (16%) 70% Bush 29% Kerry
Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual? Yes (4%) 23% Bush 77% Kerry
But the most important reasons why Bush won... the issues:
MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE?
BUSH KERRY
Terrorism (19%) 86% 14%
Economy/Jobs (20%)18% 80%
Moral Values (22%) 79% 18%
HOW ARE THINGS GOING FOR U.S. IN IRAQ?
BUSH KERRY
Well (43%) 90% 9%
Badly (52%) 17% 82%
Iraq, Moral values and Terrorism won this election for Bush. *sigh* Polls aren't mind readers, but people who thought things are going well voted for Bush - or (what I believe) Bush voters believe him when he says things are going well.
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I always vote on morals and values.
I also vote for someone who says they are
a strong Christian cause I believe then that they will
pray about the issues and seek God's help in making
a decisions.
That is why I voted the way I did.
It's not open for debate.
Quoted from "arcecat" So you are saying that no one has the right to their own beliefs or opinions?
No, I pray that you learn to think for yourself. That you learn to read carefully, and that you consider more than just religon when it comes to voting.
I'm saying your beliefs are so inconsistent and pick-and-choose that I don't understand them.
Yours, and everyone else who voted for the reasons you did.
That's just MY belief.
I don't get why you say some things are so important to you, yet won't even look at evidence proving a candidate is only talking about those things and not doing them.
And I don't get why you then attack another candidate for supposedly doing exactly the same thing.
I don't get it.
I don't get it from you or from the rest of middle America.
And yes, I'm feeding the troll. I'm feeling crappy today. So there.
Quoted from "arcecat" I always vote on morals and values.
I also vote for someone who says they are
a strong Christian cause I believe then that they will
pray about the issues and seek God's help in making
a decisions.
That is why I voted the way I did.
It's not open for debate.
I hope you're praying that our country won't get attacked again due to our fearless leader getting his claws into the Middle East and pissing off a lot of seriously extremist people who want to hurt us.
I hope you're praying that this planet doesn't get destroyed because of religious war.
I hope you're praying that MY CITY doesn't get attacked due to YOUR VOTE.
Even the exit pollers on NPR this morning were saying that people voted for Kerry because they didn't want Bush to be elected rather than wanting to elect Kerry.
Quoted from "LindyChef, Sept 2, 2004"
The Dems should be worried about the anti-Bush message that these protestors and they themselves have been delivering. They have been so focused on painting a negative picture of the president that they haven't really told us why we should vote for Kerry. Modern electoral history is riddled with examples where people thought it was just enough for people to hate your opponent (Hillary Clinton's run for the senate, Dole's presidential bid, etc). And when both sides are engaging in the mud slinging, the incumbent usually wins. Until Kerry gives a reason as to why he should be elected, why he's the better choice, he's going to lose.
Sorry ... had to put that in there because I love being right ... I still voted for Kerry though ... got blown out in my county, 58 to 42.
I gave the facts from CNN, and Arcecat has provided a concrete example as to why Bush won.
More realistically, there are lots of little groups out there that influenced the election. I just pointed out what seems like the largest groups.
One big peeve on the terrorism issue: I'd been preparing for terrorism on my job in the '90s in NYC. Disaster recovery plans, backup sites in NJ etc.... and yet it's all these people out in America's Midwest and non-metro areas who care so much about this issue, when they are really not at risk from WMD like a nuke. In New York City, I am.
I supported the war in Iraq. I was wrong, since our intelligence (WMD and the status of Iraq) was wrong. My big concern then was the and human cost, but was willing to risk that for what I thought was a better MidEast. It can still happen, but certainly if the American people could have seen this, they would not have supported a war.
Even the exit pollers on NPR this morning were saying that people voted for Kerry because they didn't want Bush to be elected rather than wanting to elect Kerry.
Yeah. I agree. As many have said before, sometimes the left and Democrats have shot themselves in the foot by providing ammunition that galvanizes the other side, rather than persuading others. I saw a lot of this in the protests over Afghanistan, and then Iraq.
Republicans were committed to voting. There was an anti-Michael Moore vote for sure.
Quoted from "mouth" And I don't get why you then attack another candidate for supposedly doing exactly the same thing.
Are you saying that I attack other candidates?
People who are way left or way right always attack the other candidate but I am not really interested in politics and I see people as people and not deserving of attacks.
What gets me is that so many folks in here think that they have the pulse of the rest of the country. Yehoodi does not really reflect the general attitudes of the majority of the country. What we have in here is a very narrow representation (especially since the majority of the folks are from NY and the the easter seaboard). Not saying it's right or wrong, but dont' be suprised if someone out of your demographic does not agree with you.
The red/blue map makes certain things clear. Kerry leads in high population density areas, Bush leads in lower population density areas. But Bush also carried a majority of the popular vote. Undeniably, more Americans voted for Bush in this election than voted for Kerry.
If you believe that people in this nation should have the freedom to choose, then you must also believe and accept that people have the freedom to choose "the wrong person."
Quoted from "arcecat" Bin Laden didn't want Bush to be elected.
Why would we want to do what a terrorist wants.
What is this post in response to? Where in this thread (or anywhere on this board, for that matter), has anyone suggested we should follow Osama bin Laden's advice?
Would you mind trying to stick to the discussion that's actually going on? It's not that hard to follow. Most of us are posing very clear, succinct questions directly to you.
Quoted from "arcecat" So you are saying that no one has the right to their own beliefs or opinions?
Like I've stated over and over again, I firmly believe that everyone has the right to their own beliefs and opinions. What I don't believe, however, is that people have the right to impose their beliefs and opinions onto other people. People who say that they want a "moral" candidate mean that they want a candidate whose "morals" coincide with their own. Now, that's fine, as long as that candidate doesn't plan to turn those "morals" into legislation.
What if Bush (or any president) suddenly switched religions to one that decreed that it was "moral" for women to be at home, and for men to be in the workplace. Would you happily quit your job and stay at home? Just because someone has "firm convictions" doesn't necessarily make those the right convictions.
Quoted from "SwingKitten" II hope you're praying that MY CITY doesn't get attacked due to YOUR VOTE.
Do you really think that America has a larger chance of a terrorist attack with Bush in power rather than Kerry?
Well actually, there is greater risk of WMDs being out there now than before. You would know that if you read the news. North Korea has been unchecked. Iran is rebuilding. And Iraq was contained under UN embargo, but now anything they may have had (not much proabbly) is out.
Oh and the Muslims are a little more annoyed at us than before. Do you know what hatred and desperateness is needed in order to drive a suicide bomber?
And I'm still quite pissed that all this homeland security money is being sent out to Alaska and other places where they don't know what to do with the money (USA Today article), while MY CITY has higher security costs. Why don't we fix that?
Seriously, if they could get their hands on it and decided to do it... they could ship in a weapon through our ports and wipe out MY FAMILY. They will NOT be attacking Topeka, Kansas and certainly not any farmland.
Another thing that gets me: The biggest trend that I'm seeing in here is the attitude that folks who voted for BUsh are somehow "less smart" than someone who voted for Kerry. I find that very condescending and downright offensive. People vote for different reasons and issues and if someone voted the other way, it just means that they have different ideas and values than you do.
Quoted from "nurseboy" Another thing that gets me: The biggest trend that I'm seeing in here is the attitude that folks who voted for BUsh are somehow "less smart" than someone who voted for Kerry. I find that very condescending and downright offensive. People vote for different reasons and issues and if someone voted the other way, it just means that they have different ideas and values than you do.
Would you mind quoting some language before painting with such a broad brush?
I would say that people who voted for Bush for certain reasons - "moral values" as a priority above all others, for example - are wrong. Does that make them less intelligent? No. But I still think they're wrong - priority-wise, and in actually assessing which candidate's "moral values" are superior when judging actions not words.
Yes, I've seen people claiming that Bush won the election because
the 50 of Americans who voted for Bush of were stupid, or ignorant, or rascist, or homophobic. Some of them well may be. But then, I am sure that there are also some stupid, and ignorant, and rascist, and homophobic voters who voted for Kerry. I'm not naming any names...
Quoted from "redshoes" Yes, I've seen people claiming that Bush won the election because
the 50 of Americans who voted for Bush of were stupid, or ignorant, or rascist, or homophobic. Some of them well may be. But then, I am sure that there are also some stupid, and ignorant, and rascist, and homophobic voters who voted for Kerry. I'm not naming any names...
That's not what nurseboy was talking about.
Quoted from "nurseboy" Another thing that gets me: The biggest trend that I'm seeing in here is the attitude that folks who voted for BUsh are somehow "less smart" than someone who voted for Kerry. I find that very condescending and downright offensive. People vote for different reasons and issues and if someone voted the other way, it just means that they have different ideas and values than you do. (emphasis added)
He's talking about people on this board. Not people generally. Which are you talking about?
I don't have to accept that people who voted Bush are every bit as smart as Kerry voters. On the contrary, I can cite statistics that say that BUsh voters are more likely to have never gone to college, never finished high school, etc.
Tolerance doesn't mean agreement or acceptance.
That having been said, Dems didn't lose because of a negative campaign. They lost because the Religious Right has been seeding the South with certain cultural values for the last 25 years. They lost because the majority of the country has moved drastically to the right. It's a cultural shift. Even the most positive campaigning would not have allowed us to win as long as we fielded a candidate who supported abortion.
Why?!? Or how people voted...
Larry
I think many of you with dashed hopes are now realizing how polarized the election got. It was a close race and this might provide some insight.
Here's the breakdown from CNN:
Some highlights I noticed...
Protestant/Weekly (16%) 70% Bush 29% Kerry
Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual? Yes (4%) 23% Bush 77% Kerry
But the most important reasons why Bush won... the issues:
MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE?
BUSH KERRY
Terrorism (19%) 86% 14%
Economy/Jobs (20%)18% 80%
Moral Values (22%) 79% 18%
HOW ARE THINGS GOING FOR U.S. IN IRAQ?
BUSH KERRY
Well (43%) 90% 9%
Badly (52%) 17% 82%
Iraq, Moral values and Terrorism won this election for Bush. *sigh* Polls aren't mind readers, but people who thought things are going well voted for Bush - or (what I believe) Bush voters believe him when he says things are going well.
Page(s): 1 2 3 4 5 Next > (146 items total, 30 per page)
arcecat
I always vote on morals and values.
I also vote for someone who says they are
a strong Christian cause I believe then that they will
pray about the issues and seek God's help in making
a decisions.
That is why I voted the way I did.
It's not open for debate.
hoya01
And apparently, you're in the majority in this country, who:
1. Believe, on its face, what some candidates say about their faith, but greeting every other statement with at least some skepticism.
2. Are able to say "It's not open for debate," while at the same time saying that we seek to govern by reason and compassion, with a straight face.
toniwbusch
:crash:
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
arcecat
So you are saying that no one has the right to their own beliefs or opinions?
skadoo
No, I pray that you learn to think for yourself. That you learn to read carefully, and that you consider more than just religon when it comes to voting.
For our nation's sake THINK!
hoya01
Who are you asking?
To what text in which post are you referring?
Try making the answers to those two questions clear before you post a question like that.
mouth
I'm saying your beliefs are so inconsistent and pick-and-choose that I don't understand them.
Yours, and everyone else who voted for the reasons you did.
That's just MY belief.
I don't get why you say some things are so important to you, yet won't even look at evidence proving a candidate is only talking about those things and not doing them.
And I don't get why you then attack another candidate for supposedly doing exactly the same thing.
I don't get it.
I don't get it from you or from the rest of middle America.
And yes, I'm feeding the troll. I'm feeling crappy today. So there.
SwingKitten
I hope you're praying that our country won't get attacked again due to our fearless leader getting his claws into the Middle East and pissing off a lot of seriously extremist people who want to hurt us.
I hope you're praying that this planet doesn't get destroyed because of religious war.
I hope you're praying that MY CITY doesn't get attacked due to YOUR VOTE.
arcecat
Hoya I was asking you and toni.
I was reacting to the previous posts
each of you made.
I don't understand why toni did the smashing computer thing.
LindyChef
Why?
Even the exit pollers on NPR this morning were saying that people voted for Kerry because they didn't want Bush to be elected rather than wanting to elect Kerry.
Sorry ... had to put that in there because I love being right ... I still voted for Kerry though ... got blown out in my county, 58 to 42.
Larry
I gave the facts from CNN, and Arcecat has provided a concrete example as to why Bush won.
More realistically, there are lots of little groups out there that influenced the election. I just pointed out what seems like the largest groups.
One big peeve on the terrorism issue: I'd been preparing for terrorism on my job in the '90s in NYC. Disaster recovery plans, backup sites in NJ etc.... and yet it's all these people out in America's Midwest and non-metro areas who care so much about this issue, when they are really not at risk from WMD like a nuke. In New York City, I am.
I supported the war in Iraq. I was wrong, since our intelligence (WMD and the status of Iraq) was wrong. My big concern then was the and human cost, but was willing to risk that for what I thought was a better MidEast. It can still happen, but certainly if the American people could have seen this, they would not have supported a war.
jhpark
From what I can glean from that CNN poll, people who thought our performance in Iraq was important voted for Kerry... ?
Larry
Yeah. I agree. As many have said before, sometimes the left and Democrats have shot themselves in the foot by providing ammunition that galvanizes the other side, rather than persuading others. I saw a lot of this in the protests over Afghanistan, and then Iraq.
Republicans were committed to voting. There was an anti-Michael Moore vote for sure.
arcecat
Are you saying that I attack other candidates?
People who are way left or way right always attack the other candidate but I am not really interested in politics and I see people as people and not deserving of attacks.
Poke Alex
Oh you mean if they hadn't been lied to by the very man they seem to want to re-elect?
"Chaw, chi-chaw, chi-chaw." - Lindsay Bluth
nurseboy
What gets me is that so many folks in here think that they have the pulse of the rest of the country. Yehoodi does not really reflect the general attitudes of the majority of the country. What we have in here is a very narrow representation (especially since the majority of the folks are from NY and the the easter seaboard). Not saying it's right or wrong, but dont' be suprised if someone out of your demographic does not agree with you.
arcecat
Do you really think that America has a larger chance of a terrorist attack with Bush in power rather than Kerry?
redshoes
The red/blue map makes certain things clear. Kerry leads in high population density areas, Bush leads in lower population density areas. But Bush also carried a majority of the popular vote. Undeniably, more Americans voted for Bush in this election than voted for Kerry.
If you believe that people in this nation should have the freedom to choose, then you must also believe and accept that people have the freedom to choose "the wrong person."
hoya01
Let's see . . . so the posts you were responding to were this:
And this:
Tell me exactly where, in either post, do either Toni or myself say "that no one has the right to their own beliefs or opinions."
Unless you can, why the hell would you ask that question, other than to make us look intolerant?
hoya01
Read her post again. She's already answered that question.
Also, which do you think is more likely to be attacked? Lower Manhattan or Manhattan, Kansas?
arcecat
Bin Laden didn't want Bush to be elected.
Why would we want to do what a terrorist wants.
hoya01
What is this post in response to? Where in this thread (or anywhere on this board, for that matter), has anyone suggested we should follow Osama bin Laden's advice?
Would you mind trying to stick to the discussion that's actually going on? It's not that hard to follow. Most of us are posing very clear, succinct questions directly to you.
toniwbusch
Like I've stated over and over again, I firmly believe that everyone has the right to their own beliefs and opinions. What I don't believe, however, is that people have the right to impose their beliefs and opinions onto other people. People who say that they want a "moral" candidate mean that they want a candidate whose "morals" coincide with their own. Now, that's fine, as long as that candidate doesn't plan to turn those "morals" into legislation.
What if Bush (or any president) suddenly switched religions to one that decreed that it was "moral" for women to be at home, and for men to be in the workplace. Would you happily quit your job and stay at home? Just because someone has "firm convictions" doesn't necessarily make those the right convictions.
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Larry
Well actually, there is greater risk of WMDs being out there now than before. You would know that if you read the news. North Korea has been unchecked. Iran is rebuilding. And Iraq was contained under UN embargo, but now anything they may have had (not much proabbly) is out.
Oh and the Muslims are a little more annoyed at us than before. Do you know what hatred and desperateness is needed in order to drive a suicide bomber?
And I'm still quite pissed that all this homeland security money is being sent out to Alaska and other places where they don't know what to do with the money (USA Today article), while MY CITY has higher security costs. Why don't we fix that?
Seriously, if they could get their hands on it and decided to do it... they could ship in a weapon through our ports and wipe out MY FAMILY. They will NOT be attacking Topeka, Kansas and certainly not any farmland.
nurseboy
Another thing that gets me: The biggest trend that I'm seeing in here is the attitude that folks who voted for BUsh are somehow "less smart" than someone who voted for Kerry. I find that very condescending and downright offensive. People vote for different reasons and issues and if someone voted the other way, it just means that they have different ideas and values than you do.
RaleighRob
I think you just did.
hoya01
Would you mind quoting some language before painting with such a broad brush?
I would say that people who voted for Bush for certain reasons - "moral values" as a priority above all others, for example - are wrong. Does that make them less intelligent? No. But I still think they're wrong - priority-wise, and in actually assessing which candidate's "moral values" are superior when judging actions not words.
redshoes
Yes, I've seen people claiming that Bush won the election because
the 50 of Americans who voted for Bush of were stupid, or ignorant, or rascist, or homophobic. Some of them well may be. But then, I am sure that there are also some stupid, and ignorant, and rascist, and homophobic voters who voted for Kerry. I'm not naming any names...
hoya01
That's not what nurseboy was talking about.
He's talking about people on this board. Not people generally. Which are you talking about?
Marcelo
No nurseboy, it doesn't.
I don't have to accept that people who voted Bush are every bit as smart as Kerry voters. On the contrary, I can cite statistics that say that BUsh voters are more likely to have never gone to college, never finished high school, etc.
Tolerance doesn't mean agreement or acceptance.
That having been said, Dems didn't lose because of a negative campaign. They lost because the Religious Right has been seeding the South with certain cultural values for the last 25 years. They lost because the majority of the country has moved drastically to the right. It's a cultural shift. Even the most positive campaigning would not have allowed us to win as long as we fielded a candidate who supported abortion.
And that's sad.
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