Ok, before I start my rant II want to clarify that I love Balboa and I have nothing against it. However, a trend that I have noticed lately is that as soon as a moderately fast song comes out everyone breaks into Balboa. What happened to Fast Lindy? Charleston? Collegiate Shag? One of the…
Originally posted Thursday, December 9, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "thenewgroovinsax"
Quoted from "ye_dancer" Wait a second. You mean that dancers are doing something easy and unchallenging, instead of something that takes lots of work? THAT'S a surprise!
Ooohh... another person complaining the balboa is easy and unchallenging. Excuse me while I go get my popcorn...
That's not what I'm saying. Like Jonathan said, bad balboa is easy, whereas bad fast lindy is generally not. Almost anyone who takes a beginning balboa class can do it fast within a few tries.
Originally posted Thursday, December 9, 2004 (7 years ago)
I pretty much agree with all of falty's points.
I absolutely love fast Lindy, and the tempos we're talking about here are more mid-tempo for me. It's better that people are out doing something to the faster music. It means the DJ is more likely to play it which means more chance to do Lindy/Charleston/Shag/Bal/whatever.
I think Balboa was the previous fad, look at what is taught at the major camps. 4/5 years ago it was all the groovy stuff, last year it was Bal, this year there's a lot more Charleston and even Cake Walk and other traditional-ish dances.
Looking at the other end of the spectrum, Blues is also popular. A year or two from now, we'll probably be complaining people only dance blues when the music is slower.
I agree with everyone who suggested Bal is there for variety, just like blues or even Big Apple, Shim Sham and others. Even ballroom dancers who can be pretty stuffy and boring do several different dances.
Originally posted Thursday, December 9, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "Nima" I am mostly frustrated with advanced dancers who fall back onto Bal when fast songs come along.
Well, in my opinion it's futile to rant about stuff like this. Who cares what other people are doing? If you want to do fast lindy, grab someone and do it. If they're doing balboa, maybe it's because, I dunno, they, hm, want to ... like ... do balboa? Just a guess. As the Latin saying goes, there is no disputing someone's taste.
I started wearing a jacket while out dancing in hopes that other guys would too (because I was kind of sick of seeing people looking like slobs). Of course maybe only 1 or 2 other people started wearing jackets too, but at least I know I look comparatively decent and I even got compliments on wearing one. That was a nice feeling, and nobody else's mellow was harshed.
Originally posted Thursday, December 9, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "kitkat"
:dunno: Some chick out dancing.
Yeah, I saw you in that shirt at ULHS. I was mildly offended--the shirt would be cooler if you only kept the front part.
Nima: Balboa has finally gotten to the point in Atlanta where a good number of folks know it and are interested in getting better. There's sort of a bottom-level tempo most people want before they'll feel comfortable doing bal, and that starts to move into the same range as fast lindy tempo. Add that to the problem that most Atlanta dancers (I'm not talking Big George here) leave the floor when fast music comes on, and that is why you think you're seeing bal replace fast lindy. Because some people who would otherwise leave the floor are now staying and dancing balboa when a faster song comes on.
In our scene, fast lindy has only just gotten going over the past few months. Nobody's abandoning fast lindy. Geez, I try to get out there and make a point of doing some fast lindy instead of bal just because I know I'll favor bal at high tempos because I love to dance it. But I think you're over-reacting a bit.
Oh, and bal is not a fad, it's just gaining more and more people who are learning to dance it.
Originally posted Saturday, December 11, 2004 (7 years ago)
Ahh, bask in the lindy hate ... put me in with Shana for the "it's going to be trendy to rip on people who do Bal instead of fast lindy." I mean, come on, aren't we going to get back to the ROOTS of the dance?
Hell, maybe we should just forget about lindy and go all the way back to African dance ...
Originally posted Saturday, December 11, 2004 (7 years ago)
Exactly. Bal was HUGE like...3, 4 years ago. Over the last 2 years fast lindy has come back in a huge way. The hardcore still bal and do it well, but when a fast song comes on people Lindy.
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "thenewgroovinsax" Yeah, same here. Bal got really popular in Seattle a few years, and has almost died out (with the exception of a few hard-core people)
I don't have Seattle history to compare it to, of course. But, I would in no way say that it has almost died out.
Certainly in comparison to lindy hop numbers, bal numbers are smaller. But, I see a crap load of balboa when I go out dancing. Especially at One O'Clock Jump and the New Orleans.
Of course, maybe I'm biased. But, I've danced lindy fewer than 10 times over the past several months. No shortage of people to bal with.
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "Soupbone"
Certainly in comparison to lindy hop numbers, bal numbers are smaller. But, I see a crap load of balboa when I go out dancing. Especially at One O'Clock Jump and the New Orleans.
Of course, maybe I'm biased. But, I've danced lindy fewer than 10 times over the past several months. No shortage of people to bal with.
And then there's this:
Err??? Bal in New Orleans? I dance there on a regular bases. There are a few who do Bal in New Orleans, but just as many are doing Shag. I love both Shag and Fast Lindy! Maybe Shag appeals to the dork inside of me. :roll:
Nima, I'll fast Lindy with you when you come down for Lindy Gras! :wink:
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
As a bad bal dancer, you are far more likely to see me swinging out at 240 BPM than doing bal. It's as much preference as experience - if I ask someone to dance to a ripping fast song, it's because I want to swingout and do Charleston. I want to eat up the song, use the floor and bust out and go crazy and the song is telling me to do just that.
I dislike the half-fact that bal has become the default fast dance. When that happens, it just seems that DJs will start slowing down the bal tempos and then we'll be back to doing bal to Quincy Jones.
I'm working on my bal right now and want to work in several bal classes and bal camps in 2005. Mainly, I just want to improve my options and broaden the group of people I can dance with, so bal seems the next step.
Nima, right now, I'd be happy they'll even entertain a faster song. Someone will come along to shake it up all over again.
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "Soupbone"
I don't have Seattle history to compare it to, of course. But, I would in no way say that it has almost died out.
How many people in Seattle can you name who dance Bal and are good at it? I probably wouldn't name more than 10 people. Compare that to the time when everyone wanted to do Bal, and you saw it at every dance.
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "mousethief"
I dislike the half-fact that bal has become the default fast dance. When that happens, it just seems that DJs will start slowing down the bal tempos and then we'll be back to doing bal to Quincy Jones.
Yup, that was my main point (maybe I am just not eloquent enough). I hate seeing the dance being categorzed by tempos (Bal=Fast, Lindy=medium, and Blues=slow). All dances can be done at all of the above tempos and also, I like to see variety. For me the music should call what you are dancing and not the tempo.
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "thenewgroovinsax"
How many people in Seattle can you name who dance Bal and are good at it? I probably wouldn't name more than 10 people. Compare that to the time when everyone wanted to do Bal, and you saw it at every dance.
Reuven
Hmmm... perhaps this is shifting the intent of this thread. But, here's a list off the top of my head:
Yoshi
Mia
Solomon
Christine (does Olympia count...?)
Dave
Travis
Sarah
Joon
Lorraine
John
Melissa
Theresa
myself
Robin
Casey
Lucy
Joshua
Chris
Lisa
Tony
Vanessa
Durn it. I know there are more, and I don't want to insult anyone by leaving them off of here!! But, that's 10 seconds worth of thinking about it.
But, again, I don't have history to compare it to. I just know I see a lot of balboa on the floor. I do see it at every dance, just in varying degrees.
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "Soupbone" Hmmm... perhaps this is shifting the intent of this thread. But, here's a list off the top of my head:
<shrug> I can think of a few that aren't on your list. However, I'd say that a number of these people aren't people who I consider serious about balboa; they can do it fairly well, but most of the time don't. Others on this list no longer dance much at all (I see them maybe once a month) I only see a few (good) couples who take every excuse to break out into bal.
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "thenewgroovinsax"
<shrug> I can think of a few that aren't on your list. However, I'd say that a number of these people aren't people who I consider serious about balboa; they can do it fairly well, but most of the time don't. Others on this list no longer dance much at all (I see them maybe once a month) I only see a few (good) couples who take every excuse to break out into bal.
I guess it's more opinion and perspective than anything, especially if we start applying all sorts of filters like how deeply into balboa they are, or how often they dance.
I don't get to dance that often, myself (maybe 4-5 times a month currently), and if I can come up with that list without thinking too hard, then there must be some truth in it somewhere. But, I'm a bal fanatic and thus perhaps notice when folks are doing it more often than you? Dunno.... and I suppose not too important at this point.
Returning to regularly scheduled conversation now.
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
I think alot of it has to do with "what people know". Here at home we have very few people that can swing out decently at over 150 bpm ...yes I said 150. it is kinda sad. Alot has to do with probably when they came into the scene and never learned the tools to dance to faster music, whether it be balboa, charleston, shag, or fast lindy.
As a lead the last thing i want to be doing is dragging someone around for 3 mins at 200 bpm. :)
It is sometimes alot easier to do balboa with them since you have more control over their movement, although I don't want to drag them around for 3 mins in that either :)
some of our dancers can of course keep up in either balboa or lindyhop or charleston with varying amounts of knowlege.
Personally, unless I know the person kinda well enough to know what they are capable of, I will ask what they know before we dance to best have a chance for a good dance for both of us. If they can bal, we will bal, if they can fast lindy, we will fast lindy, if they can do both, well then :D If neither of of feel comfortable with each others knowledge, I will respectfully decline for a different song that our styles have a better chance of meshing with.
I also think it has to do alot with the song itself. Someone talked about the music earlier. Most balboa dancers will say that good balboa music has that "pulse" to it. It just "feels" better to do balboa to, or at least feels good to dance Balboa to it period. Other music it just "feels" better to really swing out. To me, if it sounds "big" I tend to dance big, if it sounds small I will dance "small"
Although I will agree with Nima, I cringe if I see dancers doing Balboa to Jumpin at the Woodside :bonk:
Originally posted Monday, December 13, 2004 (7 years ago)
Quoted from "Toon Town Dave" Looking at the other end of the spectrum, Blues is also popular. A year or two from now, we'll probably be complaining people only dance blues when the music is slower.
I already have...for a year now. But then, I developed my blues style independently of the mainstream. What's mildly frustrating for me is that lot of follows that can follow amazing blues don't know how to do a slow swingout! But, the neat thing is those that actually follow, and make no assumption seem to like what I do.
Originally posted Tuesday, December 14, 2004 (7 years ago)
I'd like to offer the following idea:
In my experience, tempo is but one indicator of whether I dance balboa or lindy. The feel of the song is also pretty important. I could never bal to Jumpin at the Woodside in the shout section. But I don't think I could lindy to a seriously ripping Django song.
Balboa as a dance has a different vibe, and so does the music, that, to me, seems more appropriate for the dance.
Originally posted Tuesday, August 1, 2006 (5 years ago)
Quoted from "Shanabanana" Ok, seriously? First it's trendy to rip on people for not dancing at all to fast music. Is it now going to be trendy to rip on people for doing Balboa instead of fast lindy?
Many songs don't call for shag, and since a 6-count pattern feels weird over 8-count music, a lot of people don't prefer it. And maybe some of us just like squishing our chest up against someone else whenever possible. Lindy is just what we do between fast songs. Didja think of that? Huh? Huh?
Bal killed the Fast Lindy Star?
Ok, before I start my rant II want to clarify that I love Balboa and I have nothing against it. However, a trend that I have noticed lately is that as soon as a moderately fast song comes out everyone breaks into Balboa. What happened to Fast Lindy? Charleston? Collegiate Shag? One of the…
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It happens everytime a community gets balboa. Balboa becomes the default fast song dance. It just happens.
Bad balboa is easy. And its everywhere.
Don't worry, where ever your scene is now, it will eventually only be cool to dance fast lindy/charleston to [bleep!] with banjo, tuba and washboard.
Just wait for it. Everyone will flailing around thinking they're Al Minns in a few months.
That's not what I'm saying. Like Jonathan said, bad balboa is easy, whereas bad fast lindy is generally not. Almost anyone who takes a beginning balboa class can do it fast within a few tries.
I pretty much agree with all of falty's points.
I absolutely love fast Lindy, and the tempos we're talking about here are more mid-tempo for me. It's better that people are out doing something to the faster music. It means the DJ is more likely to play it which means more chance to do Lindy/Charleston/Shag/Bal/whatever.
I think Balboa was the previous fad, look at what is taught at the major camps. 4/5 years ago it was all the groovy stuff, last year it was Bal, this year there's a lot more Charleston and even Cake Walk and other traditional-ish dances.
Looking at the other end of the spectrum, Blues is also popular. A year or two from now, we'll probably be complaining people only dance blues when the music is slower.
I agree with everyone who suggested Bal is there for variety, just like blues or even Big Apple, Shim Sham and others. Even ballroom dancers who can be pretty stuffy and boring do several different dances.
Well, in my opinion it's futile to rant about stuff like this. Who cares what other people are doing? If you want to do fast lindy, grab someone and do it. If they're doing balboa, maybe it's because, I dunno, they, hm, want to ... like ... do balboa? Just a guess. As the Latin saying goes, there is no disputing someone's taste.
I started wearing a jacket while out dancing in hopes that other guys would too (because I was kind of sick of seeing people looking like slobs). Of course maybe only 1 or 2 other people started wearing jackets too, but at least I know I look comparatively decent and I even got compliments on wearing one. That was a nice feeling, and nobody else's mellow was harshed.
:dunno: Some chick out dancing.
Yeah, I saw you in that shirt at ULHS. I was mildly offended--the shirt would be cooler if you only kept the front part.
Nima: Balboa has finally gotten to the point in Atlanta where a good number of folks know it and are interested in getting better. There's sort of a bottom-level tempo most people want before they'll feel comfortable doing bal, and that starts to move into the same range as fast lindy tempo. Add that to the problem that most Atlanta dancers (I'm not talking Big George here) leave the floor when fast music comes on, and that is why you think you're seeing bal replace fast lindy. Because some people who would otherwise leave the floor are now staying and dancing balboa when a faster song comes on.
In our scene, fast lindy has only just gotten going over the past few months. Nobody's abandoning fast lindy. Geez, I try to get out there and make a point of doing some fast lindy instead of bal just because I know I'll favor bal at high tempos because I love to dance it. But I think you're over-reacting a bit.
Oh, and bal is not a fad, it's just gaining more and more people who are learning to dance it.
Ahh, bask in the lindy hate ... put me in with Shana for the "it's going to be trendy to rip on people who do Bal instead of fast lindy." I mean, come on, aren't we going to get back to the ROOTS of the dance?
Hell, maybe we should just forget about lindy and go all the way back to African dance ...
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ADVANCE THE SWING MOVEMENT!
Whew, had to get that one out of my system ...
I dunno where you people are, but in my neck of the woods it's the other way around. Balboa is scarce and everyone lindys fast.
And you're in Cali? Weird....
Yeah, same here. Bal got really popular in Seattle a few years, and has almost died out (with the exception of a few hard-core people)
Exactly. Bal was HUGE like...3, 4 years ago. Over the last 2 years fast lindy has come back in a huge way. The hardcore still bal and do it well, but when a fast song comes on people Lindy.
Bal is just catching on in Austin, so expect fast lindy to arrive in 3 or 4 years... ;)
Wait, you just put "Austin" and "fast lindy" in the same sentence... I'm confused now... :spineyes:
Who does lindy hop anymore? It's so... fourties.
Hmmm....Laura Malloy lives in Austin and she can cook.....
I don't have Seattle history to compare it to, of course. But, I would in no way say that it has almost died out.
Certainly in comparison to lindy hop numbers, bal numbers are smaller. But, I see a crap load of balboa when I go out dancing. Especially at One O'Clock Jump and the New Orleans.
Of course, maybe I'm biased. But, I've danced lindy fewer than 10 times over the past several months. No shortage of people to bal with.
And then there's this:
Err??? Bal in New Orleans? I dance there on a regular bases. There are a few who do Bal in New Orleans, but just as many are doing Shag. I love both Shag and Fast Lindy! Maybe Shag appeals to the dork inside of me. :roll: Nima, I'll fast Lindy with you when you come down for Lindy Gras! :wink:
:cry: I am on call that weekend so I cannot leave the Atlanta vicinities :cry:
As a bad bal dancer, you are far more likely to see me swinging out at 240 BPM than doing bal. It's as much preference as experience - if I ask someone to dance to a ripping fast song, it's because I want to swingout and do Charleston. I want to eat up the song, use the floor and bust out and go crazy and the song is telling me to do just that.
I dislike the half-fact that bal has become the default fast dance. When that happens, it just seems that DJs will start slowing down the bal tempos and then we'll be back to doing bal to Quincy Jones.
I'm working on my bal right now and want to work in several bal classes and bal camps in 2005. Mainly, I just want to improve my options and broaden the group of people I can dance with, so bal seems the next step.
Nima, right now, I'd be happy they'll even entertain a faster song. Someone will come along to shake it up all over again.
Kalman
How many people in Seattle can you name who dance Bal and are good at it? I probably wouldn't name more than 10 people. Compare that to the time when everyone wanted to do Bal, and you saw it at every dance.
Reuven
Yup, that was my main point (maybe I am just not eloquent enough). I hate seeing the dance being categorzed by tempos (Bal=Fast, Lindy=medium, and Blues=slow). All dances can be done at all of the above tempos and also, I like to see variety. For me the music should call what you are dancing and not the tempo.
Nima
Hmmm... perhaps this is shifting the intent of this thread. But, here's a list off the top of my head:
Yoshi Mia Solomon Christine (does Olympia count...?) Dave Travis Sarah Joon Lorraine John Melissa Theresa myself Robin Casey Lucy Joshua Chris Lisa Tony Vanessa
Durn it. I know there are more, and I don't want to insult anyone by leaving them off of here!! But, that's 10 seconds worth of thinking about it.
But, again, I don't have history to compare it to. I just know I see a lot of balboa on the floor. I do see it at every dance, just in varying degrees.
Actually, I meant "The New Orleans," which is a restaurant/bar here in Seattle.
<shrug> I can think of a few that aren't on your list. However, I'd say that a number of these people aren't people who I consider serious about balboa; they can do it fairly well, but most of the time don't. Others on this list no longer dance much at all (I see them maybe once a month) I only see a few (good) couples who take every excuse to break out into bal.
I guess it's more opinion and perspective than anything, especially if we start applying all sorts of filters like how deeply into balboa they are, or how often they dance.
I don't get to dance that often, myself (maybe 4-5 times a month currently), and if I can come up with that list without thinking too hard, then there must be some truth in it somewhere. But, I'm a bal fanatic and thus perhaps notice when folks are doing it more often than you? Dunno.... and I suppose not too important at this point.
Returning to regularly scheduled conversation now.
I think alot of it has to do with "what people know". Here at home we have very few people that can swing out decently at over 150 bpm ...yes I said 150. it is kinda sad. Alot has to do with probably when they came into the scene and never learned the tools to dance to faster music, whether it be balboa, charleston, shag, or fast lindy.
As a lead the last thing i want to be doing is dragging someone around for 3 mins at 200 bpm. :)
It is sometimes alot easier to do balboa with them since you have more control over their movement, although I don't want to drag them around for 3 mins in that either :)
some of our dancers can of course keep up in either balboa or lindyhop or charleston with varying amounts of knowlege.
Personally, unless I know the person kinda well enough to know what they are capable of, I will ask what they know before we dance to best have a chance for a good dance for both of us. If they can bal, we will bal, if they can fast lindy, we will fast lindy, if they can do both, well then :D If neither of of feel comfortable with each others knowledge, I will respectfully decline for a different song that our styles have a better chance of meshing with.
I also think it has to do alot with the song itself. Someone talked about the music earlier. Most balboa dancers will say that good balboa music has that "pulse" to it. It just "feels" better to do balboa to, or at least feels good to dance Balboa to it period. Other music it just "feels" better to really swing out. To me, if it sounds "big" I tend to dance big, if it sounds small I will dance "small"
Although I will agree with Nima, I cringe if I see dancers doing Balboa to Jumpin at the Woodside :bonk:
I already have...for a year now. But then, I developed my blues style independently of the mainstream. What's mildly frustrating for me is that lot of follows that can follow amazing blues don't know how to do a slow swingout! But, the neat thing is those that actually follow, and make no assumption seem to like what I do.
Back to your regular scheduled routine!
I'd like to offer the following idea:
In my experience, tempo is but one indicator of whether I dance balboa or lindy. The feel of the song is also pretty important. I could never bal to Jumpin at the Woodside in the shout section. But I don't think I could lindy to a seriously ripping Django song.
Balboa as a dance has a different vibe, and so does the music, that, to me, seems more appropriate for the dance.
For Pocotell.
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