Yehoodi.com

Frim Fram Jam, NY     Yehoodi Radio - Listen 24 hours a day! Listen 24 hours a day! Weekly updated shows     Frim Fram Jam - NYC's Lindy Hop Thursdays!    

Why wasn't Jane Fonda tried for treason?

  • Joined 9/6/01
  • 2346
  • Lounge > Politics
  • Posted Saturday, April 9, 2005
  • 49
  • 0
  • 7605

Apparently when she went to visit the US PoWs in Vietnam, they passed her tiny slips of papers with their names on them. She then turned the papers over to the N. Vietnamese. What was Nixon afraid of?

Yehoodi Featured Topics

 

Page(s): 1 2 ... Next > (49 items total, 30 per page)

 
  • Joined 8/14/01
  • 10438
  • Post #1
  • Originally posted Saturday, April 9, 2005 (9 years ago)

did you get this ridiculous idea from michelle malkin's lies-filled column this week or what?

  • Joined 5/12/00
  • 2178
  • Post #2
  • Originally posted Saturday, April 9, 2005 (9 years ago)

That was a crazy, mixed up time in this country. By that time, there was a great anti-war sentiment and great upheaval in the US. During the years we had been in Vietnam, Jack and Bobby Kennedy had been assasinated, as well as the Rev. Martin Luther King. Innocent Americans had been murdered by the National Guard. Anti-war protestors had taken over university buildings, usually the ROTC buildings. Some of the more extreme anti-war protestors had even resorted to bombs.

We had been in Vietnam for years. We watched as young soldiers kept coming home in body bags, or missing limbs, or mentally disabled. We never saw any progress being made. It was a stalemate. After the Tet offensive in '68, when 70,000 NVA and the Viet Cong troops simultaneously attacked more than 100 cities, the anti-war sentiment in the US grew.

Yes, 'Hanoi Jane' made a lot of enemies with her actions in North Vietnam. Many thought them to be treasonous. But there were a lot of people that supported her. I think if Tricky Dick had gone after her, there would have been an even greater public outcry.

Besides, the action you speak of is not true. I found this at Urban Legends. Three of the US soldiers mentioned in the email that has been circulating for quite some time, were P.O.W.s, and they have denied that it ever happened. Here's a quote from one of them.

Quote
"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, whom I reached by phone at his home in Arizona. Carrigan, who was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967, says he has no idea why this story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda," he told me. It goes without saying he never handed her a secret message.
  • Joined 8/28/01
  • 1584
  • Post #3
  • Originally posted Saturday, April 9, 2005 (9 years ago)

The fact that Fonda entertained North Vietnamese troops seems grounds enough to qualify under giving "aid and comfort" to ones enemies under the definition of treason. However, Fonda was also their guest and under their "protection". Regardless of whether any of the context in which Miss Fonda was present in enemy territory in 1972, it is quite clear that Vietnam Veterans have never forgiven her for her behavior and rightfully so.

An army Vietnam Veteran first cavalry medic details Fonda's exploits--complete with photos of Ms.Fonda posing on an NVA anti-aircraft gun--here:

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

I don't know about Michelle Malkin, but I can tell you those radical right-wingers at the Boston Herald of all places, haven't cut her any slack:

She said she committed a betrayal. Since she brought it up, it's worth noting that according to the dictionary the word betray'' means to be a traitor,'' and that means, among other things, to be guilty of treason.''

Read the whole thing here: http://news.bostonherald.com/opinion/view.bg?articleid=77611

This dust up has more to do with Fonda's sudden growth of a moral conscience and asking for forgiveness for the unforgivable in promotion of her new book. Ms.Fonda should never be forgiven for her actions. Too little, too late, Jane. Who knows, maybe you and John Walker Lindh can do a joint book tour when he gets out of prison and collectively beg our forgiveness some more. :roll:

"I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would affront your intelligence." --William F. Buckley Jr.

  • Joined 5/12/00
  • 2178
  • Post #4
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "DCjumper"
http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

Thanks for posting that link. At least that's a true depiction of what Jane did. (as opposed to what Sublindy spoke of) I remember when she went to Hanoi, and I remember seeing the photos, but I don't remember hearing the radio spot she did.

  • Joined 1/16/01
  • 12597
  • Post #5
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)

DCJ, I don't think you should presume to speak for Vietnam vets when you talk about what they think of her and whether she should beg "us" for forgiveness.

  • Joined 5/22/01
  • 4649
  • Post #6
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "DCjumper"
This dust up has more to do with Fonda's sudden growth of a moral conscience and asking for forgiveness for the unforgivable in promotion of her new book. Ms.Fonda should never be forgiven for her actions.

Her actions were treasonous however no one actually died as a result of them. It isn't like the scientist who passed the Atomic bomb secret to the Soviets.

I notice that you aren't denouncing the My Lai massacre.

http://www.vietnamwar.com/MyLai.htm

The pulic has every right to be upset when a massacre is done in their name just as they had a right to be upset at the human rights abuses perpetrated for them at Abu Ghraib.

  • Joined 9/6/01
  • 2346
  • Post #7
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "Atalanta"
did you get this ridiculous idea from michelle malkin's lies-filled column this week or what?

No, I heard it on the Monica Crowley show--what did her column say? I find it hard to believe it was filled with lies.

  • Joined 9/24/99
  • 3713
  • Post #8
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "Deacon Jones"
I notice that you aren't denouncing the My Lai massacre. http://www.vietnamwar.com/MyLai.htm The pulic has every right to be upset when a massacre is done in their name just as they had a right to be upset at the human rights abuses perpetrated for them at Abu Ghraib.

Lt Calley was punished severly for Mai Lai.....although some (including myself) think his immediate commander should have been court-martialed as well.

  • Joined 8/28/01
  • 1584
  • Post #9
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "Marcelo"
DCJ, I don't think you should presume to speak for Vietnam vets when you talk about what they think of her and whether she should beg "us" for forgiveness.

Well, I obviously wasn't speaking for Vietnam vets, Marcelo. When I say "us" I mean to say there a lot more people who are steamed at Fonda.

As for My Lai, that's a bit off the subject and unlike Ms.Fonda, those involved were punished.

"I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would affront your intelligence." --William F. Buckley Jr.

  • Joined 5/12/00
  • 2178
  • Post #10
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "nurseboy"
....although some (including myself) think his immediate commander should have been court-martialed as well.

...and possibly even further up the chain of command. I've heard quite a few Vietnam vets say that search and destroy missions were pretty common.

  • Joined 8/14/01
  • 10438
  • Post #11
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/mm20050406.shtml

When you ask why people on the left think people on the far right are full of hate, I submit the frothing Michelle Malkin as Exhibit A.

Fonda was a young actress -- not a diplomat, politician, or representative of the military. She acted irresponsibly and has apologized more than once. She is now considered a Vietnam equivalent to and embodiment of Tokyo Rose or Mata Hari -- which is plain flat wrong. The idea of a trial for treason at this date, I find completely absurd.

  • Joined 9/6/01
  • 2346
  • Post #12
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)

I Don't see any lies in Malkins' column, and Fonda never apologized.

  • Joined 8/14/01
  • 10438
  • Post #13
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)

well, i see and say otherwise, but i guess i'm just wrong.

  • Joined 5/10/00
  • 3791
  • Post #14
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "Atalanta"
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/mm20050406.shtml When you ask why people on the left think people on the far right are full of hate, I submit the frothing Michelle Malkin as Exhibit A. Fonda was a young actress -- not a diplomat, politician, or representative of the military. She acted irresponsibly and has apologized more than once. She is now considered a Vietnam equivalent to and embodiment of Tokyo Rose or Mata Hari -- which is plain flat wrong. The idea of a trial for treason at this date, I find completely absurd.

Normally, I agree with everything that you post and I am so far o the left that I might fall off the edge. And while I do not agree that Jane Fonda should have been tried for treason what she did was reprehensible and unforgivable apology or not. She deserves the name Hanoi Jane, she earned it and the comparison to Tokyo Rose is accurate. If you ever saw the film, you would know that she made her own little film with American Prisoners of War even though she knew that the soldiers were being beaten and starved so that they would participate in the film. She also posed on guns of war. She did not care about the Vietnamese people or the anti-war movement, only the free publicity that she could get for herself.

I want to be clear about my post, what she did that was wrong was to take advantage of starving and beaten men and to pose on instruments of war. I have no problem with people who were part of the anti-war movement but she wasn t one of them. Her visits to the camps caused these men great pain and suffering (they were beaten and starved in order to make them agree to meet with her). She knew this and continued anyway. I have seen actual interviews with these men once they returned home. Some of them begged her to stop but she showed no compassion to them. Who does this? I feel that there are some things that are just unforgivable.

The link below is not that accurate but it will provide some insight into her past.

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

  • Joined 7/22/99
  • 2479
  • Post #15
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "DCjumper"
The fact that Fonda entertained North Vietnamese troops seems grounds enough to qualify under giving "aid and comfort" to ones enemies under the definition of treason.

Last I checked, the Congress never declared war on North Vietnam. It may have been a war on the ground, but it was a police action on paper. Since there was no official "war" how can she be charged for treason?

ORBIS NON SUFFICIT

  • Joined 9/24/99
  • 3713
  • Post #16
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "HepcatBob"
Quoted from "nurseboy"
....although some (including myself) think his immediate commander should have been court-martialed as well.
...and possibly even further up the chain of command. I've heard quite a few Vietnam vets say that search and destroy missions were pretty common.

Nothing wrong with search and destroy missions to root out combatants. It's what infantry does. It's called Recon By Force. The problem is that an order given to specifically kill civilians was issued. The question was always at what level this was given out at. From the presentations that I have been to and the sources that I have read, LT Calley's Company Commander issued an order that was, if not specifically stating this, easily interpreted as "waste the village". At the very least, that Company Commander should have had better control over Calley.

  • Joined 5/21/01
  • 1868
  • Post #17
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "Atalanta"
well, i see and say otherwise, but i guess i'm just wrong.

If you don't present evidence that Michelle Malkin is not only wrong but willfully misleading the public, then why shouldn't your statement be dismissed out of hand?

  • Joined 9/24/99
  • 3713
  • Post #18
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)

I think a lot of vets don't think her apology is genuine.....

  • Joined 8/14/01
  • 10438
  • Post #19
  • Originally posted Sunday, April 10, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "Addict"
Quoted from "Atalanta"
well, i see and say otherwise, but i guess i'm just wrong.
If you don't present evidence that Michelle Malkin is not only wrong but willfully misleading the public, then why shouldn't your statements be dismissed out of hand?

Because today i am tired. And I'm at work and simply don't have time to create a cohesive argument that one will even read anyway. I am forced to read her columns every week and i find her to be a rabid right wing propagandist.

In that column:

"Meanwhile, Fonda's fellow Hollywood hippie leftover, Peter Yarrow, traveled to Vietnam last week "ready to get down on my knees as one American and say, 'Please forgive us'" -- a sentiment with which the unrepentant Fonda -- who has yet to apologize for those treasonous radio broadcasts -- no doubt concurs. "

Out of thin air, making a link between two unrelated people, one that is unflattering to at least one of the parties. That's propaganda.

And i do not argue with my statement being dismissed out of hand because I know i did not form a bullet-pointed and heavily referenced argument -- which no one would actually read anyway -- so that was me giving up without a fight.

Please carry on.

  • Joined 8/28/01
  • 1584
  • Post #20
  • Originally posted Monday, April 11, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "Fredo"
Quoted from "DCjumper"
The fact that Fonda entertained North Vietnamese troops seems grounds enough to qualify under giving "aid and comfort" to ones enemies under the definition of treason.
Last I checked, the Congress never declared war on North Vietnam. It may have been a war on the ground, but it was a police action on paper. Since there was no official "war" how can she be charged for treason?

Valid point. But then again, I never saw anyone say "police action" with a straight face. Keep in mind, I'm not necessarily jumping on the prosecute Fonda bandwagon here, but for all her apologies, she'll never wash away the stain of her radicalism. It was with her then and it is with her now. Like all good allegedly reformed radicals of the 60's, feeling guilt is her only true punishment. I see that as just, not vengeful.

Some things are simply a matter of bad timing, bad taste or bad judgement. Fonda certainly qualifies for all three here. The only fiasco that rivals this in recent memory was Sean Penn's serving as a Ba'athist shill, just before the Iraq War. He was paraded around hospitals in front of children "harmed by coalition bombs" or "starved by sanctions"...while Saddam built another million dollar marble palace. Wonder if him and Jane ever trade "war stories".

I note that in this thread, there was a rush to frame it as blaming Malkin for being overzealous or the old standby of ever fallacious moral equivelency, raising the ghost of My Lai and yet still no real defense of what Fonda did. Golly, wonder why?

I'm sorry, but if none of this so much as raises a scintilla of anger that these people later pretend to be "naive" or "taken advantage of" after the fact, given that they live in a free society and have access to a sheer breadth of information that should make even so much as the the very thought of endorsing one's enemies cause as just in claiming a "victimization" outrageous. Protesting is one thing. The whoring of one's celebrity for low and despicable causes is something else.

"I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would affront your intelligence." --William F. Buckley Jr.

  • Joined 12/31/69
  • 9360
  • Post #21
  • Originally posted Monday, April 11, 2005 (9 years ago)

Dood, she makes me sick. Oh, Jane Fonda too.

Kalman

  • Joined 8/14/01
  • 10438
  • Post #22
  • Originally posted Monday, April 11, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "DCjumper"
Some things are simply a matter of bad timing, bad taste or bad judgement. .... the old standby of ever fallacious moral equivelency ... I'm sorry, but if none of this so much as raises a scintilla of anger that these people later pretend to be "naive" or "taken advantage of"

politicians do these things allll the time. "youthful indiscretions," anyone? i guess it's just a matter of what is your hotbutton issue? "aid and comfort", adultery, drug use, war protests, what have you. everyone equivocates and tries to pretend there were no mistakes, or that those mistakes were sooooo long ago, and the person is soooo much smarter/kinder/savvier now.

the only difference between public figures and private ones is that the public figures' actions and words are on record. so they are never allowed to escape them. i'm sure my dad pulled a bunch of baloney when he was in his 20s, and said many things he would never agree with now, but no one will ever hear about it because he's a nobody. :shrug:

mrz mrz
  • Joined 6/7/01
  • 2772
  • Post #23
  • Originally posted Monday, April 11, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "DCjumper"
I don't know about Michelle Malkin, but I can tell you those radical right-wingers at the Boston Herald of all places

Guide to Boston papers for people not from Boston:

Boston Herald != Boston Globe

Boston Globe = Boston's New York Times Funnies -> Attempts serious journalism Boston Herald = Boston's New York Post -> Attempts to create most eye catching headline for greater ad revenue

Boston Herald = RAG

  • Joined 7/22/99
  • 2479
  • Post #24
  • Originally posted Monday, April 11, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "DCjumper"
Quoted from "Fredo"
Quoted from "DCjumper"
The fact that Fonda entertained North Vietnamese troops seems grounds enough to qualify under giving "aid and comfort" to ones enemies under the definition of treason.
Last I checked, the Congress never declared war on North Vietnam. It may have been a war on the ground, but it was a police action on paper. Since there was no official "war" how can she be charged for treason?
Valid point. But then again, I never saw anyone say "police action" with a straight face. Keep in mind, I'm not necessarily jumping on the prosecute Fonda bandwagon here, but for all her apologies, she'll never wash away the stain of her radicalism. It was with her then and it is with her now. Like all good allegedly reformed radicals of the 60's, feeling guilt is her only true punishment. I see that as just, not vengeful. Some things are simply a matter of bad timing, bad taste or bad judgement. Fonda certainly qualifies for all three here. The only fiasco that rivals this in recent memory was Sean Penn's serving as a Ba'athist shill, just before the Iraq War. He was paraded around hospitals in front of children "harmed by coalition bombs" or "starved by sanctions"...while Saddam built another million dollar marble palace. Wonder if him and Jane ever trade "war stories". I note that in this thread, there was a rush to frame it as blaming Malkin for being overzealous or the old standby of ever fallacious moral equivelency, raising the ghost of My Lai and yet still no real defense of what Fonda did. Golly, wonder why? I'm sorry, but if none of this so much as raises a scintilla of anger that these people later pretend to be "naive" or "taken advantage of" after the fact, given that they live in a free society and have access to a sheer breadth of information that should make even so much as the the very thought of endorsing one's enemies cause as just in claiming a "victimization" outrageous. Protesting is one thing. The whoring of one's celebrity for low and despicable causes is something else.

True.True. and True. However, none of your points or opinions justifies a legal trial with the charge of treason against Ms. Fonda. Remember the title of this thread? Why wasn't Jane Fonda tried for Treason? Well I believe I provided an answer. How she fares in the court of public opinion is another matter.

ORBIS NON SUFFICIT

  • Joined 7/20/03
  • 4033
  • Post #25
  • Originally posted Wednesday, April 13, 2005 (9 years ago)

Jane Fonda certainly deserved to be shot for her treason. However, as I understand it, she (and other Vietnam protestors) were pardoned, and for that matter she has apologized. There's nothing more to be done IMO.

  • Joined 1/16/01
  • 12597
  • Post #26
  • Originally posted Wednesday, April 13, 2005 (9 years ago)

Good to know you are so quick to judge someone who has never been tried for anything AND to suggest that they should have been killed.

Judge, jury, AND executioner. You say you represent America?

  • Joined 7/20/03
  • 4033
  • Post #27
  • Originally posted Wednesday, April 13, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "Marcelo"
Good to know you are so quick to judge someone who has never been tried for anything AND to suggest that they should have been killed. Judge, jury, AND executioner.

Quit lying, Marcelo. I never said I wanted to be executioner. I think a Vietnam Vet should have been given the honors.

Quoted from "Marcelo"
You say you represent America?

Yeah, I'd say so.

  • Joined 1/16/01
  • 12597
  • Post #28
  • Originally posted Wednesday, April 13, 2005 (9 years ago)

Funny, you sound more like the People's Republic of China.

  • Joined 7/30/04
  • 4355
  • Post #29
  • Originally posted Wednesday, April 13, 2005 (9 years ago)

No, in order to do that, he'd have to have said he'd be charging Ms. Fonda's estate for the bullet.

  • Joined 9/24/99
  • 3713
  • Post #30
  • Originally posted Wednesday, April 13, 2005 (9 years ago)
Quoted from "hoya01"
No, in order to do that, he'd have to have said he'd be charging Ms. Fonda's estate for the bullet.

....And funeral expense... :spineyes: Makes capital punishment a whole lot cheaper no? :wink: :P

Page(s): 1 2 ... Next > (49 items total, 30 per page)