I've heard a lot about ceroc lately, and aside from "it's a fun mix of jive and salsa" and "the name came from c'est la roc" I can't find anything about it. Can someone tell me the count/basic/style? I feel so ignorant, so very ignorant...
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
I'd hasten to add, that when I see couples dancing ceroc, they're not fudging the footwork, so to speak, it's more that there is no foot work (which is not to say that they stand in one place at all times and don't move their feet).
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "oopsmybad"
Quoted from "JefrSki" Maybe it's just me but I don't see anything all that inappropriate in the last video.
if i were you, in that case, i would want to be damned sure i am not one of the people perceived as "creepy old men" in the scene...
that last video? blech. get a room.
What's so bad about that last video that makes it worth accusing JefrSki of being a creep? Jeez. It's a choreographed performance piece, and probably by teachers, judging from her headset. From all the ickies posted here, I figured it was going to be some lecherous social dance. I've seen much more sultry sh t in WCS performances. It may not be my cup of tea, but I'd hardly call it inappropriate.
Now, if some guy I didn't know well tried those moves on me socially, he'd probably get smacked, but since when is performance dancing the same as social dancing?
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "RubyMae" I'd hasten to add, that when I see couples dancing ceroc, they're not fudging the footwork, so to speak, it's more that there is no foot work (which is not to say that they stand in one place at all times and don't move their feet).
Agreed. What's next? We start raggin' on Carolina Shaggers that they should swingout? If the dance doesn't focus on footwork, so what? Doesn't mean they're lazy or bad dancers, it's just not as central a part of the dance as it is for us.
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "grasshopper"
Quoted from "oopsmybad"
Quoted from "JefrSki" Maybe it's just me but I don't see anything all that inappropriate in the last video.
if i were you, in that case, i would want to be damned sure i am not one of the people perceived as "creepy old men" in the scene...
that last video? blech. get a room.
What's so bad about that last video that makes it worth accusing JefrSki of being a creep? Jeez. It's a choreographed performance piece, and probably by teachers, judging from her headset. From all the ickies posted here, I figured it was going to be some lecherous social dance. I've seen much more sultry sh t in WCS performances. It may not be my cup of tea, but I'd hardly call it inappropriate.
Now, if some guy I didn't know well tried those moves on me socially, he'd probably get smacked, but since when is performance dancing the same as social dancing?
wow, you really missed the point. no one is accusing anyone of being creepy; the words i selected to express my comment were in no way accusatory. i'm just saying that pulling that out on a social floor would be considered creepy by most. so if you don't think it is creepy (as jefrski posted), and especially if you are pulling that kind of stuff out on a social floor, well, there is a high likelihood you may be too clueless to see that slap coming the next time around.
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
Leads dance with a variety of follows at any given social event - some are strangers, some are very well-known to them. I think any lead who pulls an intimate-close-move with a follow they don't know is asking for a slap (or worse). But if the lead knows their follower would not object to such a move, there's no harm in doing it. Social dancing is not about performing to the whim of the observers - it's about being comfortable with each other. Of course, to an onlooker, the dynamics of their relationship might not be obvious, and an over-zealous label-loving spectator might just jump to an unfair conclusion. Such is the risk of life.
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
My thanks to grasshopper for pointing out that one often sees much more intimate moves in some performances then in that last video. At no point do I see any inappropriate touching of any part of the follows body. Am I missing something? At the end he runs his hand down her arm and side. I've seen sexier stuff at almost any Blues dance I've been to. I did not point out that one should not do this with a follow they do not know well as that is true for all moves that could be considered risque and I apologize if I gave the wrong impression. The follow rules in this area and I always respect the follows wishes.
It also appears the word fudging has much more unpleasant connotations then I realized. It was used in a previous part of this thread and did not appear to be such a horrible thing. I actually meant it as a major compliment to dancers who are free to improvise and do so in a way that makes it seamless. There's a flow there that strangely makes me want to laugh out loud when it happens. It always makes me have one of those "life is goooood" moments that sems to tickle your very soul.
Quote It also takes quite a bit of balance and centering to do a layed out kick back on the 1,2 while leading a follower to come forward for a swingout.
That ain't fudging.
That's some tough sh t.
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
In my experience, one uses the term "fudging it" to mean faking it. So, if you were to say "they're fudging their footwork" it implies that they're faking it.
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "RubyMae" In my experience, one uses the term "fudging it" to mean faking it. So, if you were to say "they're fudging their footwork" it implies that they're faking it.
That's my interpertation too....'cause I fudge it all the time! When I dance lindy I rely a lot on my westie footwork and then fake the rest...as a result I trip over my own feet a lot. It's not a pretty sight, but it gets me through the dance.
Originally posted Wednesday, August 24, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "oopsmybad" wow, you really missed the point. no one is accusing anyone of being creepy; the words i selected to express my comment were in no way accusatory.
I may have missed your intended point, but you did tell the guy that he better watch out, because if he thinks there's nothing wrong with that video, then he's probably a creep on the social dance floor. Oh, and he's probably old. If you didn't intend to communicate that, then cool. shrug I agree with you that it would creepy on the social dance floor among unfamiliar partners, but that video is clearly a performance piece. I don't want lindyhoppers pulling out aerials on the social floor either. Competitions and performances are a different animal. Even given that it's a performance piece, it's pretty damn tame compared to alot of performances I've seen.
Originally posted Thursday, August 25, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "grasshopper" Agreed. What's next? We start raggin' on Carolina Shaggers that they should swingout? If the dance doesn't focus on footwork, so what? Doesn't mean they're lazy or bad dancers, it's just not as central a part of the dance as it is for us.
I'm a Ceroc dancer; although I'm pleased to see you defend it, I'd have to say I think the footwork (or lack of it) is one of the dance's big weaknesses. In point of fact, there is nominal footwork, but it's just walk-walk-walk-walk- are you bored yet? -walk. Plus the men tend to drop even that when there's anything complicated going on.
The biggest thing Ceroc has going for it is it is really easy for beginners to get started. My impression is the retention rate would make any Lindy or WCS teacher weep with envy. The only thing is, some of those who do stay would make the teacher weep for other reasons...
Quoted from "grasshopper" I agree with you that it would creepy on the social dance floor among unfamiliar partners, but that video is clearly a performance piece.
Actually, it's not even a performance piece; it's part of an instructional video. And that video is a specific "close moves" video. So there's an exceptionally high proportion of sleazy moves - you wouldn't normally dance like that. Even so, my understanding is it's largely illusion - his hands often aren't touching where you think!
Funny that the move most are uncomfortable with is clearly a homage to Dirty Dancing; the caption at the start makes it obvious...
Originally posted Wednesday, September 14, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "Dave"
Quoted from "grasshopper" Agreed. What's next? We start raggin' on Carolina Shaggers that they should swingout? If the dance doesn't focus on footwork, so what? Doesn't mean they're lazy or bad dancers, it's just not as central a part of the dance as it is for us.
I'm a Ceroc dancer; although I'm pleased to see you defend it, I'd have to say I think the footwork (or lack of it) is one of the dance's big weaknesses. In point of fact, there is nominal footwork, but it's just walk-walk-walk-walk- are you bored yet? -walk. Plus the men tend to drop even that when there's anything complicated going on.
:lol: I agree! I see the advantage of simplifying a dance so that complete beginners can get out onto the dance floor after only a couple of lessons. However, it does mean that these dancers can have a harder time progressing later on, should they wish to do so. In fact, if they really want to improve their dancing they have to take Lindy, WCS or Salsa classes.
Lily
I dance Modern Jive in New York (I learned Rock 'n' Roll in France which, despite what everyone says, is not the same!) and I absolutely love it! I just really, really wish more people who also dance other styles, would come to the parties :( :D
Originally posted Wednesday, September 14, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "LilyVoulaitAllerDanser" I dance Modern Jive in New York (I learned Rock 'n' Roll in France which, despite what everyone says, is not the same!) and I absolutely love it! I just really, really wish more people who also dance other styles, would come to the parties :( :D
Lily, I didn't realize Modern Jive was still going in NYC! I was originally a Ceroc dancer in England (ballroom, latin and jive prior to that) and danced here when Ceroc became Rejive. I only started swing a short time ago, but it's my favorite! Please PM me when there are more parties!
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
Originally posted Wednesday, September 14, 2005 (6 years ago)
Quoted from "OpeningMinds"
Quoted from "LilyVoulaitAllerDanser" I dance Modern Jive in New York (I learned Rock 'n' Roll in France which, despite what everyone says, is not the same!) and I absolutely love it! I just really, really wish more people who also dance other styles, would come to the parties :( :D
Lily, I didn't realize Modern Jive was still going in NYC! I was originally a Ceroc dancer in England (ballroom, latin and jive prior to that) and danced here when Ceroc became Rejive. I only started swing a short time ago, but it's my favorite! Please PM me when there are more parties!
A Modern Jiver who also does other dances :clap: I will PM you right away!!!
Originally posted Sunday, October 9, 2005 (6 years ago)
Most people on this forum are talented enough and keen enough to be able to swing dance. Modern Jive (MJ) is probably not for most of you.
The choreographer Michel Ange Lau and other brought "Leroc" into existence, as an easy to learn, adaptable partner dance for the less fortunate. There is little set footwork, which does not mean that the dancers cannot use whatever footwork they can adapt to fit the music.
"Ceroc" Tm is a franchise organisation that teaches their version of the dance. WWW.modernjive.com list a few hundred other organisations.
For the dance illiterate MJ is the easiest way to get onto the dancefloor and dance to playlists that include:
Basement Jaxx - Do Your Thing
Stray Cats - Stray Cat Strut
Nat King Cole - Let There Be Love
Indigo Swing - How Lucky Can One Guy Be
Gadjo - Besame Mucho
Marc Anthony - D melo
Dany Brillant - Cest Toi
Pink Martini - Amado Mio
Sarah Vaughan, Adam Freeland - Fever
Propellerheads Featuring Shirley B - History Repeating
Bo Kaspers orkester - Undantag
Roy Orbison - Oh, Pretty Woman
Sean Costello - Goombay Rock
Tom Jones & Jools Holland - St James Infirmary Blues
Shakira - Ojos As
Henry Mancini - The Pink Panther Theme
David Bisbal - Buleria
Quincy Jones His Orchestra, Roland Kirk - Soul Bossa Nova
Etta James - I Just Want To Make Love To You
Robbie Williams - Mack The Knife
Robbie Williams - Straighten Up And Fly Right
Lemon - Latin Lover
In Grid In Tango
Jools And His Rhythm & Blues Orchestra Hollard - Tuxedo Junction
Will Young - Over You
Hazel O'Connor - Will You?
For me MJ is the Swiss army knife of dance. I admire the skills of Lindy, but do not want to do it, and of WCS, but can't, and I do not want to tango to tango music. MJ I love.
Originally posted Monday, October 10, 2005 (6 years ago)
Hello Everyone,
As Jivedaddy says, Ceroc (or Modern Jive) is not going to meet with approval with a group of hard-core Lindy-hoppers, for sure. But it is one of the most popular forms of partner dance here in the UK (possibly second to Salsa, at least in London). It's also growing faster than any other, and is popular in Australia and New Zealand too.
It's very interesting to find out what other dance communities think of each other; some of us who are members at www.cerocscotland.com/forum have read this thread with great interest...
One of the criticisms of the Lindy and swing scene here in the uk is that it's a bit uptight, especially hard sometimes for new starters to break into. Many of us who love MJ are the sort who spent many years with their backs to the wall terrified of the thought of moving their bodies to the music, so we try to be especially welcoming to beginners. As Dave wrote, the retention rate at our classes is very high. That means we have a large proportion of less-skilled and novice dancers. But they have as good a time as anyone else.
Of course we also have a strong cohort of people with backgrounds in all sorts of ballroom, ballet, swing and other partner dances. Everyone can find their own style within MJ; we're not prescriptive.
The two people in the video are Nicky Haslam and Robert Winter. Nicky owns and runs the Ceroc and Modern Jive Company in Australia; they also have their own forum at www.cerocforum.com (Australian style has diverged somewhat from UK Ceroc; it tends to include a lot more aerials.)
What *is* ceroc?
I've heard a lot about ceroc lately, and aside from "it's a fun mix of jive and salsa" and "the name came from c'est la roc" I can't find anything about it. Can someone tell me the count/basic/style? I feel so ignorant, so very ignorant...
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I'd hasten to add, that when I see couples dancing ceroc, they're not fudging the footwork, so to speak, it's more that there is no foot work (which is not to say that they stand in one place at all times and don't move their feet).
What's so bad about that last video that makes it worth accusing JefrSki of being a creep? Jeez. It's a choreographed performance piece, and probably by teachers, judging from her headset. From all the ickies posted here, I figured it was going to be some lecherous social dance. I've seen much more sultry sh t in WCS performances. It may not be my cup of tea, but I'd hardly call it inappropriate.
Now, if some guy I didn't know well tried those moves on me socially, he'd probably get smacked, but since when is performance dancing the same as social dancing?
Agreed. What's next? We start raggin' on Carolina Shaggers that they should swingout? If the dance doesn't focus on footwork, so what? Doesn't mean they're lazy or bad dancers, it's just not as central a part of the dance as it is for us.
:dunno:
wow, you really missed the point. no one is accusing anyone of being creepy; the words i selected to express my comment were in no way accusatory. i'm just saying that pulling that out on a social floor would be considered creepy by most. so if you don't think it is creepy (as jefrski posted), and especially if you are pulling that kind of stuff out on a social floor, well, there is a high likelihood you may be too clueless to see that slap coming the next time around.
Leads dance with a variety of follows at any given social event - some are strangers, some are very well-known to them. I think any lead who pulls an intimate-close-move with a follow they don't know is asking for a slap (or worse). But if the lead knows their follower would not object to such a move, there's no harm in doing it. Social dancing is not about performing to the whim of the observers - it's about being comfortable with each other. Of course, to an onlooker, the dynamics of their relationship might not be obvious, and an over-zealous label-loving spectator might just jump to an unfair conclusion. Such is the risk of life.
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
My thanks to grasshopper for pointing out that one often sees much more intimate moves in some performances then in that last video. At no point do I see any inappropriate touching of any part of the follows body. Am I missing something? At the end he runs his hand down her arm and side. I've seen sexier stuff at almost any Blues dance I've been to. I did not point out that one should not do this with a follow they do not know well as that is true for all moves that could be considered risque and I apologize if I gave the wrong impression. The follow rules in this area and I always respect the follows wishes.
It also appears the word fudging has much more unpleasant connotations then I realized. It was used in a previous part of this thread and did not appear to be such a horrible thing. I actually meant it as a major compliment to dancers who are free to improvise and do so in a way that makes it seamless. There's a flow there that strangely makes me want to laugh out loud when it happens. It always makes me have one of those "life is goooood" moments that sems to tickle your very soul.
Amen to that, cause that sure ain't fudging.
In my experience, one uses the term "fudging it" to mean faking it. So, if you were to say "they're fudging their footwork" it implies that they're faking it.
That's my interpertation too....'cause I fudge it all the time! When I dance lindy I rely a lot on my westie footwork and then fake the rest...as a result I trip over my own feet a lot. It's not a pretty sight, but it gets me through the dance.
Stacked: Dangerously Well-Read
In the future I will only fudge my footwork when dancing Ceroc.
I may have missed your intended point, but you did tell the guy that he better watch out, because if he thinks there's nothing wrong with that video, then he's probably a creep on the social dance floor. Oh, and he's probably old. If you didn't intend to communicate that, then cool. shrug I agree with you that it would creepy on the social dance floor among unfamiliar partners, but that video is clearly a performance piece. I don't want lindyhoppers pulling out aerials on the social floor either. Competitions and performances are a different animal. Even given that it's a performance piece, it's pretty damn tame compared to alot of performances I've seen.
I'm a Ceroc dancer; although I'm pleased to see you defend it, I'd have to say I think the footwork (or lack of it) is one of the dance's big weaknesses. In point of fact, there is nominal footwork, but it's just walk-walk-walk-walk- are you bored yet? -walk. Plus the men tend to drop even that when there's anything complicated going on.
The biggest thing Ceroc has going for it is it is really easy for beginners to get started. My impression is the retention rate would make any Lindy or WCS teacher weep with envy. The only thing is, some of those who do stay would make the teacher weep for other reasons...
Actually, it's not even a performance piece; it's part of an instructional video. And that video is a specific "close moves" video. So there's an exceptionally high proportion of sleazy moves - you wouldn't normally dance like that. Even so, my understanding is it's largely illusion - his hands often aren't touching where you think!
Funny that the move most are uncomfortable with is clearly a homage to Dirty Dancing; the caption at the start makes it obvious...
:lol: I agree! I see the advantage of simplifying a dance so that complete beginners can get out onto the dance floor after only a couple of lessons. However, it does mean that these dancers can have a harder time progressing later on, should they wish to do so. In fact, if they really want to improve their dancing they have to take Lindy, WCS or Salsa classes.
Lily
I dance Modern Jive in New York (I learned Rock 'n' Roll in France which, despite what everyone says, is not the same!) and I absolutely love it! I just really, really wish more people who also dance other styles, would come to the parties :( :D
Lily, I didn't realize Modern Jive was still going in NYC! I was originally a Ceroc dancer in England (ballroom, latin and jive prior to that) and danced here when Ceroc became Rejive. I only started swing a short time ago, but it's my favorite! Please PM me when there are more parties!
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
A Modern Jiver who also does other dances :clap: I will PM you right away!!!
I honestly think I may steal one of the non-gropey moves, but make it faster and dump it into west coast for the fun of it.
Ceroc is fun! I got to teach at a Ceroc event in the UK and I had a great time!
Ceroc was my first partner dance.
Most people on this forum are talented enough and keen enough to be able to swing dance. Modern Jive (MJ) is probably not for most of you. The choreographer Michel Ange Lau and other brought "Leroc" into existence, as an easy to learn, adaptable partner dance for the less fortunate. There is little set footwork, which does not mean that the dancers cannot use whatever footwork they can adapt to fit the music. "Ceroc" Tm is a franchise organisation that teaches their version of the dance. WWW.modernjive.com list a few hundred other organisations. For the dance illiterate MJ is the easiest way to get onto the dancefloor and dance to playlists that include: Basement Jaxx - Do Your Thing Stray Cats - Stray Cat Strut Nat King Cole - Let There Be Love Indigo Swing - How Lucky Can One Guy Be Gadjo - Besame Mucho Marc Anthony - D melo Dany Brillant - Cest Toi Pink Martini - Amado Mio Sarah Vaughan, Adam Freeland - Fever Propellerheads Featuring Shirley B - History Repeating Bo Kaspers orkester - Undantag Roy Orbison - Oh, Pretty Woman Sean Costello - Goombay Rock Tom Jones & Jools Holland - St James Infirmary Blues Shakira - Ojos As Henry Mancini - The Pink Panther Theme David Bisbal - Buleria Quincy Jones His Orchestra, Roland Kirk - Soul Bossa Nova Etta James - I Just Want To Make Love To You Robbie Williams - Mack The Knife Robbie Williams - Straighten Up And Fly Right Lemon - Latin Lover In Grid In Tango Jools And His Rhythm & Blues Orchestra Hollard - Tuxedo Junction Will Young - Over You Hazel O'Connor - Will You?
For me MJ is the Swiss army knife of dance. I admire the skills of Lindy, but do not want to do it, and of WCS, but can't, and I do not want to tango to tango music. MJ I love.
Hello Everyone,
As Jivedaddy says, Ceroc (or Modern Jive) is not going to meet with approval with a group of hard-core Lindy-hoppers, for sure. But it is one of the most popular forms of partner dance here in the UK (possibly second to Salsa, at least in London). It's also growing faster than any other, and is popular in Australia and New Zealand too.
It's very interesting to find out what other dance communities think of each other; some of us who are members at www.cerocscotland.com/forum have read this thread with great interest...
One of the criticisms of the Lindy and swing scene here in the uk is that it's a bit uptight, especially hard sometimes for new starters to break into. Many of us who love MJ are the sort who spent many years with their backs to the wall terrified of the thought of moving their bodies to the music, so we try to be especially welcoming to beginners. As Dave wrote, the retention rate at our classes is very high. That means we have a large proportion of less-skilled and novice dancers. But they have as good a time as anyone else.
Of course we also have a strong cohort of people with backgrounds in all sorts of ballroom, ballet, swing and other partner dances. Everyone can find their own style within MJ; we're not prescriptive.
The two people in the video are Nicky Haslam and Robert Winter. Nicky owns and runs the Ceroc and Modern Jive Company in Australia; they also have their own forum at www.cerocforum.com (Australian style has diverged somewhat from UK Ceroc; it tends to include a lot more aerials.)
Best wishes to all of you.
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