OK, maybe I'm completely ignorant, but I just don't get it. Seems to me that it's simply sloooow lindy done to blues/bluesy music.
Just had a conversation with a friend on this very subject, so I know I'm not alone in this....but my biggest problem is that blues dancing requires an awful lot of "sudden intimacy". That's fine if you're dancing with a friend, but I just can't muster that kind of comfort with a stranger. Maybe I'm a prude or just too shy. Don't get me wrong, I like to dance playfully and flirt a bit with some partners, but I'm not sure I could "turn it on" for just anyone.
So I want to keep an open mind ... has anyone else felt this way? How did you overcome it? Should I just suck it up and dance or forget the whole thing as something that's not for me?
I'm going to a post-Thanksgiving party that is being billed a blues night and I feel like I might be sitting around a lot.
Thanks,
Frank
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Frank -- there is no shame in not being that comfortable dancing that close. In fact, you don't have to be that close all the time while doing blues. You can do slow lindy, or tango moves -- there is no ironclad rule. I used to be hesistant about being that close -- I found it took some time.
However, I do not think it is something you "turn on" -- so to speak. I feel that even blues dancing should be focused on the connection between the two dancers. You want to focus on sharing the feeling that the music is transmitting in the room, and make the dance feel as comfortable as you can. Basically, if anything, try to lead in a way that it is easy for your follower to be totally in sync with what you are doing while at the same time matching the music. Actually, if the music calls for open position -- by all means do that. I personally don't like it when people think there is only one way to do blues.
It is like an exercise in connection and musicality. Just totally focus on your follower, and use your body (especially with weight transfer, and hip movement) to lead your follower. Always be aware of what foot your follower's weight is on and make your moves as smooth and clear as you can.
What? You probably just don't like the moves. Like the classic Beaver Clamp that derived out of 1930's juke joints, or maybe The Dry Hump alluding to the classic "Blues Move" coming out of the Chicago tradition. Perhaps you need to practice the "Full [bleep!]act Body Roll" that has been passed down from earlier generations of Mississippi delta blues dancers.
I'm sure there are lots of video clips depicting these and other popular "blues moves." i
Quoted from "krarf" OK, maybe I'm completely ignorant, but I just don't get it. Seems to me that it's simply sloooow lindy done to blues/bluesy music.
There's more that one type of blues dancing. Being a semantic bastard, you could simply say that any dancing done to blues music is blues dancing. That's a little disingenuous - some movement feels better than other movement to blues music. Some songs ask for larger movement. Some suggest quiet contemplation.
For example, ask yourself how you would dance at a funeral. I've seen more than one DJ play "Strange Fruit". I promise that if you're going to dance to that song [at all], it sure won't look like lindy hop.
Quote
Just had a conversation with a friend on this very subject, so I know I'm not alone in this....but my biggest problem is that blues dancing requires an awful lot of "sudden intimacy".
No more so than bal or tango. Are those dances too intimate?
Quote
That's fine if you're dancing with a friend, but I just can't muster that kind of comfort with a stranger. [...] I'm not sure I could "turn it on" for just anyone.
Some dances are more <insert adj. here> than others in the same way that having the same conversation with two different people will be different.
Quote
So I want to keep an open mind ... has anyone else felt this way? How did you overcome it?
I started this blues thing a little over two years ago. Before I took it seriously, I considered modern blues dancing to be "grounded tango"... and "grounded" wasn't the exact word I used at the time. :wan grin: I'm not entirely sure when it clicked, but my attitude has turned 180 degrees since then. Maybe you'll have a similar epiphany...
Quote
Should I just suck it up and dance or forget the whole thing as something that's not for me?
That's a question only you can answer.
Quote
I'm going to a post-Thanksgiving party that is being billed a blues night and I feel like I might be sitting around a lot.
If you do go, bring friends. Dance with them. Ask them what they like and don't like. Maybe, just maybe, the confines imposed by the lack of space and the music will spark something. Oh, and don't forget to have some fun.
krarf -- you are entitled to your feelings. Blues dancing does indeed involve "sudden intimacy" and that can be creepy with a stranger ... or not, depending on the circumstances. But this is all about YOU and your feelings in the moment. If you are uncomfortable, the universe is sending you a mesage and you should pay attention to it.
Blues dancing is definitely more inttimate and even sexual than 200 bpm lindy or even balboa. In fact, that is the point of the whole thing. There is no shame in being uncomfortable with that. In fact it is good that you are aware of what you are getting into if you venture into that territory.
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having" - V
There's a lot more to blues that just cheek-to-cheek slow dancing. That's because there's a lot more to blues music than slow, sexy songs. Blues runs the gamut from melancholy and slow to upbeat and fast. At the "blues event" you're talking about I'd wager we'll hear a wide variety from delta blues to Chicago-style (think BB King), to some of the jump blues and soul that Stace tends to play at the regular lindy dances.
As for blues dance, you might try checking out BluesPulse for some fairly in depth information and discussion on modern blues dance. There are definitely basic steps and movements that have been historically danced to the blues.
You should never feel compelled to dance in a situation that makes you uncomfortable. You can always make space in the dance, or dance blues in open position. As stated above, some blues music really moves and calls for it. Just avoid swingouts. :wink: Also, don't get fooled into thinking that grind dancing to blues music is modern blues dance. It's all well and good if both partners are into it, but that's the sort of thing I save for my girlfriend.
Jacki (from Orlando/Pittsburgh) and I are offering a blues workshop in Orlando in Feb., which I'd like to invite you and all of the South FL folk up to take. We'll also be having a blues dance that evening, and I can guarantee that there'll be a lot more than grinding going on.
I remember being nervous about the sudden intimacy, the bump-n-grind stereotype, and the unfamiliar music of blues until I had taken some classes and become more familiar with the dance.
For you, it seems to be about the intimacy, so I will speak to that. I am now able to get that physically close to a stranger so quickly because I know the dance doesn't have to be a vertical expression of horizontal desire. It can also be about focusing on the subtlties of the lead and following it. It can be about enjoying the song that's playing.
I know that there have been a ton of blues dance threads on Yehoodi. If you search the discussion board, you'll find them, and they're always full of interesting perspectives. I'm terrible at searching for threads on Yehoodi; in fact, I just tried to search for "blues dance," 1295 matches came up. Eep!
Anyway, I'm sure this question has been asked before, since I've seen threads on it, but what is a good example of "authentic" blues dancing? Any old movies/clips that I should check out?
I've heard the Slow Drag referred to as a blues dance, but I've never seen it.
in addition to checking out bluespulse.com also see bluesdance.info. those are better references for your questions as much of yehoodi doesnt blues dance.
If you are ever in the Dallas, TX area, Jerry and Kathy Warwick are excellent blues instructors. They are very clear about testing the waters for what your partner will tolerate in intimacy--start pretty open, and if things fly, get closer (but only if you want to). Grinding was right out, for the most part. Their Red, White, and Blues weekend was fantastic, and I plan on going back for more.
And Joshua, thanks again for the blues dance at ALX afterhours Saturday! Karen Maria certainly knows her leads...you were a great deal of fun!
Susan
You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment. —Francis Urquhart
Quoted from "NEON" What? You probably just don't like the moves. Like the classic Beaver Clamp that derived out of 1930's juke joints, or maybe The Dry Hump alluding to the classic "Blues Move" coming out of the Chicago tradition. Perhaps you need to practice the "Full [bleep!] Body Roll" that has been passed down from earlier generations of Mississippi delta blues dancers.
I'm sure there are lots of video clips depicting these and other popular "blues moves." i
HA!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't believe no one else picked up on that!
Neon wins!
Oh, but you forgot the ever popular "Boner in Follows' Hip" from the old Kino clips with Pepsi Butler.
If you really want to learn, people have listed off some great resources for you. It's impossible for me to tell you through Yehoodi what blues is really all about, but I guess the most important point is that it's not slow lindy, nor is it grinding.
I think of blues as an opportunity to stretch time and space. Everything is milked just that little bit more... and then released. Many of the adjectives I could give to blues also apply to lindy hop: grounded, connected, dynamic, improvisational, etc. And yet even without music, and regardless of tempo, I could tell you in a millisecond which dance I'm following because they are so different. Even when it looks like lindy, it doesn't feel like lindy.
It's such a complicated, diverse, and intricate dance that it really is what you make of it. If you want it to be crappy or creepy or boring, it will be. But I suggest you take classes and do research and dance with people who know what they're doing so that you can learn how to make it feel gritty and raw and alive or like chocolate velvet cake.
And listen to the music. The music ultimately tells you what to do.
My personal opinion on blues dance is that it's stupid. For me. To each their own. Hey...if you dig it, grind your lil'hips off.
It just doesn't work for me: if I am not attracted to a person, I certainly don't wanna be blues dancing with them. If I am attracted to them, I would actually prefer pursuing them off the dance floor...away from prying eyes. If I'm really, really attracted to them (like in a relationship with them), I'm not the kinda guy who gets off watching others in an intimate embrace with them. Not gonna happen.
Eff's right. There is some level of intimacy involved. There has to be with that sort of close embrace. The same as you must have to dance tango, or balboa. It's difficult for many people, even dancers, to deal with that sort of casual physical and emotional intimacy at the fundamental level needed for a blues dance.
Sometimes, though, a dance is just a dance. And we say thank you when it's over and move on to the next partner.
I actually feel similar about it. I will turn people down for blues dances simply because it's a blues dance, and honestly I don't really enjoy getting all drippy with someone I don't actually plan on taking home.
This isn't always the case, sometimes the dance is just a dance, but if I've ever turned you down for a blues dance just know that it's only because I don't want to dry hump you on the dancefloor, ask me the next up tempo number.
Hmmm....it s been a while since I had a Blues rant on Yehoodi...
So here is what I think is the most important thing to remember about Blues Dancing that many, many people completely forget, all the time:
It s just a dance.
There is no requirement for it to be intimate, emotional, or anything more than just a dance. The more people try to make it into some emotional, nigh-religious experience, the more difficult it will be to get people to ever check it out.
No one walked into Juke Joint in Louisiana in 1946 looking for an intimate dance experience . Other experiences? Yes. ;) AND, most often with the girl they brought, or a girl for whom they had intentions that went beyond the dance floor. Switching partners all night and dancing the way Blues is often danced today would likely have gotten a lot of people beaten up or shot by someone s boyfriend by the end of the night, back in the day.
With all that Blues music available, it s really hard to day that Blues has to be slow and intimate . Sure it can be intimate, but that is a choice made by the two people dancing and is in no way a requirement of the dance. Many people substitute pseudo-sexual, suggestive and sensual movement for intimacy without even knowing it, and confuse sexual and sensual, with intimate. I think intimate dances are great. If you have them, that is fantastic but I also think that truly intimate dances are generally the exception and not the rule. For me, they are a great find in a night of Blues Dancing, but they are not the goal of a night of Blues Dancing.
If you are uncomfortable in a dance, you should make yourself comfortable. Ladies, you have a left arm, get the space you need. Gentlemen, you have control of the frame, create the space you want. Both partners should take the time to figure out where the distance is comfortable for both of you. Leave your egos at the door. Check them with your coats. Just because someone doesn t want to dance close is not a rejection of you. Get over it, it s just a dance. If you can t have a fulfilling, fun dance with some distance between you, you are probably not being honest with yourself about the reasons you are Blues Dancing.
So make yourself comfortable. If your partner can t handle your level of comfort then the message that the universe is sending here, is about being considerate and conscientious of other people and their boundaries and is for them, NOT for you. Don t let anyone, ever, tell you that you have to be willing to cross some personal boundaries to dance this dance. If they want to use the dance as some sort of experiment and learning experience on how to push their boundaries for themselves, that s great...for them. If they start pushing those ideas on others, well, that s putting their desire/need before their partner s boundaries, and that s just spells trouble and scares people away.
As far as it having to be slow goes, well, anyone who has been to a national Blues event (Cheap Thrills, Down Home Blues, Red White and Blues, Emerald City, etc) in the past year will know that Blues Dancing is most certainly NOT always slow. In fact, I would say that at Red White and Blues, in Dallas ,3 weeks ago, a majority of the music over the weekend was moderate tempo or faster. And the floor was full of people dancing to those songs, and many of them were not doing swing-outs. Yet they managed to dance Blues just fine. If it s slow, it s because DJs and dancers are choosing for it to be, not because it is supposed to be.
Blues music runs through a huge span of time and is still being created today, much the same as it was in the past. Robert Johnson doesn t sound like Bessie Smith, doesn t sound like Sidney Bechet, doesn t sound like Muddy Waters, doesn t sound like BB King, doesn t sound like Percy Mayfield, doesn t sound like Howlin Wolf, doesn t sound like Robert Fulson, doesn t sound like Ray Charles, doesn t sound like Little Walter, doesn t sound like Fats Waller, doesn t sound like Stevie Ray Vaughn, doesn t sound like Kim Wilson, doesn t sound like Pinetop Perkins...
...and those are just a few of the better known artists.
Otis Redding, Dr. John, Paul Butterfield...you can go on and on and on.
There is such a huge range of sound that you get from the evolution of Blues Music. Some of it is just a hair s breadth away from Gospel, some of it is as far from church as you can get. We often dance to just a tiny, tiny, limited portion of the Blues music spectrum, mostly because people's ideas of what Blues Dancing should be are truly limiting the possibilities of what it could be.
edited to add a qualifier - I think that this happens most at local, smaller dances. It seems to me that the more nationally known DJs do a good job of covering much the spectrum, though they all have their favorites.
So get out and dance, try it out, dance however you like, or don t. Take a night to just enjoy the company of friends and watch to get a feel for the music and the people. Relax, it s just a dance, afterall.
Since Ogden showed up, I feel like I have to make a slight disclaimer. There are talented "blues" dancers out there. I can enjoy the occasional blues dance (even though 90 of what's thought of as blues is actually soul music) with another talented follow. But man, when you get a blues dance with a bump and grind type, or someone who's got body roles hardwired into their butt, I just want to cut and run. No pathetic loser blues dances for me thankyou. I can get all that makey-outy stuff elsewhere without having to leave a mark on some chicks jeans.
I also heard recently about an all-male blues jam and I think I threw up a little in my mouth.
Quoted from "bryn" In most cases, though, it isn't a sexual intimacy. This is where many people get it wrong.
Umm, yeah. Hence the boner in the hip. I don't feel like struggling to keep my personal space during a dance. I just say "no".
Quoted from "bryn"
For some people, any kind of intimacy is too much. If that's you then by all means, I'm not trying to force you out of your comfort zone.
But the intimacy comes from the connection (and I'm not talking connection-to-genitalia), and can embrace any emotion.
Ha!
It's BLUES DANCING. Not religious communion. I'll leave the intimacy to my friends and family, and God, thanks.
Random Guy in sweaty T-shirt will not get intimate with me. It's called having standards, and personal space boundaries. Not to mention good taste. Maybe it's not sexual to you, but as Ogden pointed out, back in the day that kind of "intimacy" on the dance floor would have led to more than a few crimes of passion and certainly some raised eyebrows.
Granted, this is not what I think blues dancing is. This is what I find at most blues events or parties. Gimme some soul wrenching Bessie Smith to dance with Falty, and then were talking.
I like this explanation from Charlie and Heidi's website:
What Is Blues Dance?
Blues dance, like Lindy Hop and Swing, originated and evolved from African rhythms and movements. However, Blues dance was never widely practiced as a "social" or performance dance in the United States; so it developed and thrived in smoky juke joints and at Blues house parties, giving it a more intimate feel.
Because Blues dance lacked wider social approval and appeal, it remained strongly entrenched in African principles of movement, not only in the motion of the hips, but in the characteristic creation of, and dancing within, a boundary.
In addition, Blues dance is strongly tied to Blues music, and many aspects of Blues dance (for example, call and response, emotional intensity, and tension and release) are directly related to the music to which it is danced. There are many types of blues music (rural, urban, up-tempo, slow, electric, delta, modern), and therefore many types of Blues dance, all with very different nuances and emotions.
Some observers and dancers who have not studied modern slow Blues dance other than simply by observation overlook the nuances of the dance beyond its "sexy" side. To their eyes, the sensual appearance of the dance may overshadow its basis and structure. Blues dance at its best is rooted in subtle physical communication and connection with your partner and is almost impossible to learn to execute well simply by watching.
Blues dance enables intense individuality in expressing the music, emphasizing that the music, not the dancer, leads the dance; the dancer is simply the interpreter. Blues dance demonstrates the passion of the entire range of human emotions - from sadness to joy - not just sensuality. If you don't have a visceral reaction to the music, your partner, and the environment, then you are missing the true beauty of Blues dance.
Learning Blues dance enables the dancer to more fully understand dance concepts such as simplicity, clarity, creativity, expression, intensity, and musical and emotional interpretation that are critical to advanced social dancing of any kind.
I also heard recently about an all-male blues jam and I think I threw up a little in my mouth.
that equals- NOT HOT!
Hey, Don West and I did the stereotypical ballroom Tango march across the middle of that jam. Don't tell me that's not hot! :wink:
..and I got to cut in to the middle of it just so I could dip Jerry.
As for what you imagine it was like, read my post above regard song tempo and the range of possibilities in Blues music. I doubt it was at all like what you were imagining. Two guys dancing Bal had more contact that most of the dancing in that jam.
Alright, I'm gonna wade back into this, because looking back at my original post, I see that I probably left myself open to a lot of misinterpretation.
I understand that it's just a dance. I don't have a problem with interpreting the music. In fact, I love the blues and have been an avid collector for years.
I've thought a little bit more about what bugs me and think Neon might have hit it on the head. The blues dancing that I've seen has been all Beaver Clamp and Turbo [bleep!]Hammer moves. That's the sort of "intimacy" I am not into.
This thread has fallen into a semantic debate about intimacy v. sexuality v. something else v. God knows what else.
Of course it's just a dance. In fact, I'm sure I have danced to the blues on countless occasions. Have I been doing "blues dancing"? I don't know. There's a difference out there (it seems) between what I've been doing and "real" blues dancing (ie. with a defined basic, etc).
I sort of think of it like this... just because I can do a jig to In the Mood doesn't mean that I'm swing dancing.
I guess I'm looking for examples to follow. Where can I see it done well without a lot of grinding?
You know, I've got to run and do some shopping maybe perform some Turbo [bleep!]Hammer Moves, get my oil changed. It's a a busy day today.
kudos to Lindynymph for "Boner in Follows' Hip." I especially appreciate the well placed apostrophe. Why one follow when you can go around poking several over the course of the evening.
Something else that I wanted to capture in my comment was the absurdity of modern Lindy influenced blues dancing participating in the legacy of older blues dancing. As if we have much of a clue what classic blues dancing looks like. The stuff I saw down in Clarksdale Mississippi certainly looks nothing like what I see on the lindy scene. I don't assume to be an authority, but I have to at least question what I see.
Someone help me understand blues dancing
krarf
OK, maybe I'm completely ignorant, but I just don't get it. Seems to me that it's simply sloooow lindy done to blues/bluesy music.
Just had a conversation with a friend on this very subject, so I know I'm not alone in this....but my biggest problem is that blues dancing requires an awful lot of "sudden intimacy". That's fine if you're dancing with a friend, but I just can't muster that kind of comfort with a stranger. Maybe I'm a prude or just too shy. Don't get me wrong, I like to dance playfully and flirt a bit with some partners, but I'm not sure I could "turn it on" for just anyone.
So I want to keep an open mind ... has anyone else felt this way? How did you overcome it? Should I just suck it up and dance or forget the whole thing as something that's not for me?
I'm going to a post-Thanksgiving party that is being billed a blues night and I feel like I might be sitting around a lot.
Thanks,
Frank
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jlyertv
Frank -- there is no shame in not being that comfortable dancing that close. In fact, you don't have to be that close all the time while doing blues. You can do slow lindy, or tango moves -- there is no ironclad rule. I used to be hesistant about being that close -- I found it took some time.
However, I do not think it is something you "turn on" -- so to speak. I feel that even blues dancing should be focused on the connection between the two dancers. You want to focus on sharing the feeling that the music is transmitting in the room, and make the dance feel as comfortable as you can. Basically, if anything, try to lead in a way that it is easy for your follower to be totally in sync with what you are doing while at the same time matching the music. Actually, if the music calls for open position -- by all means do that. I personally don't like it when people think there is only one way to do blues.
It is like an exercise in connection and musicality. Just totally focus on your follower, and use your body (especially with weight transfer, and hip movement) to lead your follower. Always be aware of what foot your follower's weight is on and make your moves as smooth and clear as you can.
NEON
What? You probably just don't like the moves. Like the classic Beaver Clamp that derived out of 1930's juke joints, or maybe The Dry Hump alluding to the classic "Blues Move" coming out of the Chicago tradition. Perhaps you need to practice the "Full [bleep!]act Body Roll" that has been passed down from earlier generations of Mississippi delta blues dancers.
I'm sure there are lots of video clips depicting these and other popular "blues moves." i
ua
There's more that one type of blues dancing. Being a semantic bastard, you could simply say that any dancing done to blues music is blues dancing. That's a little disingenuous - some movement feels better than other movement to blues music. Some songs ask for larger movement. Some suggest quiet contemplation.
For example, ask yourself how you would dance at a funeral. I've seen more than one DJ play "Strange Fruit". I promise that if you're going to dance to that song [at all], it sure won't look like lindy hop.
No more so than bal or tango. Are those dances too intimate?
Some dances are more <insert adj. here> than others in the same way that having the same conversation with two different people will be different.
I started this blues thing a little over two years ago. Before I took it seriously, I considered modern blues dancing to be "grounded tango"... and "grounded" wasn't the exact word I used at the time. :wan grin: I'm not entirely sure when it clicked, but my attitude has turned 180 degrees since then. Maybe you'll have a similar epiphany...
That's a question only you can answer.
If you do go, bring friends. Dance with them. Ask them what they like and don't like. Maybe, just maybe, the confines imposed by the lack of space and the music will spark something. Oh, and don't forget to have some fun.
Cheers,
Joshua
krarf
Thanks, I'll give it a go and see if it clicks. Seems like my only choice anyway....
Racetrack
krarf -- you are entitled to your feelings. Blues dancing does indeed involve "sudden intimacy" and that can be creepy with a stranger ... or not, depending on the circumstances. But this is all about YOU and your feelings in the moment. If you are uncomfortable, the universe is sending you a mesage and you should pay attention to it.
Blues dancing is definitely more inttimate and even sexual than 200 bpm lindy or even balboa. In fact, that is the point of the whole thing. There is no shame in being uncomfortable with that. In fact it is good that you are aware of what you are getting into if you venture into that territory.
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having" - V
Keither
Frank -
There's a lot more to blues that just cheek-to-cheek slow dancing. That's because there's a lot more to blues music than slow, sexy songs. Blues runs the gamut from melancholy and slow to upbeat and fast. At the "blues event" you're talking about I'd wager we'll hear a wide variety from delta blues to Chicago-style (think BB King), to some of the jump blues and soul that Stace tends to play at the regular lindy dances.
As for blues dance, you might try checking out BluesPulse for some fairly in depth information and discussion on modern blues dance. There are definitely basic steps and movements that have been historically danced to the blues.
You should never feel compelled to dance in a situation that makes you uncomfortable. You can always make space in the dance, or dance blues in open position. As stated above, some blues music really moves and calls for it. Just avoid swingouts. :wink: Also, don't get fooled into thinking that grind dancing to blues music is modern blues dance. It's all well and good if both partners are into it, but that's the sort of thing I save for my girlfriend.
Jacki (from Orlando/Pittsburgh) and I are offering a blues workshop in Orlando in Feb., which I'd like to invite you and all of the South FL folk up to take. We'll also be having a blues dance that evening, and I can guarantee that there'll be a lot more than grinding going on.
jennylynn
I remember being nervous about the sudden intimacy, the bump-n-grind stereotype, and the unfamiliar music of blues until I had taken some classes and become more familiar with the dance.
For you, it seems to be about the intimacy, so I will speak to that. I am now able to get that physically close to a stranger so quickly because I know the dance doesn't have to be a vertical expression of horizontal desire. It can also be about focusing on the subtlties of the lead and following it. It can be about enjoying the song that's playing.
So, moral of the story, take Keither's classes!
SliceyJ
I know that there have been a ton of blues dance threads on Yehoodi. If you search the discussion board, you'll find them, and they're always full of interesting perspectives. I'm terrible at searching for threads on Yehoodi; in fact, I just tried to search for "blues dance," 1295 matches came up. Eep!
Anyway, I'm sure this question has been asked before, since I've seen threads on it, but what is a good example of "authentic" blues dancing? Any old movies/clips that I should check out?
I've heard the Slow Drag referred to as a blues dance, but I've never seen it.
Anybody know what it looks like?
mme cartier
in addition to checking out bluespulse.com also see bluesdance.info. those are better references for your questions as much of yehoodi doesnt blues dance.
sccs
If you are ever in the Dallas, TX area, Jerry and Kathy Warwick are excellent blues instructors. They are very clear about testing the waters for what your partner will tolerate in intimacy--start pretty open, and if things fly, get closer (but only if you want to). Grinding was right out, for the most part. Their Red, White, and Blues weekend was fantastic, and I plan on going back for more.
And Joshua, thanks again for the blues dance at ALX afterhours Saturday! Karen Maria certainly knows her leads...you were a great deal of fun!
Susan
You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment. —Francis Urquhart
Lindynymph
HA!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't believe no one else picked up on that!
Neon wins!
Oh, but you forgot the ever popular "Boner in Follows' Hip" from the old Kino clips with Pepsi Butler.
Lindynymph
Yeah, especially if the message comes in the form of vulva smashed against your thigh.
Racetrack has obviously never seen me dance balboa. :wink:
SliceyJ
Oh, yeah! I completely forgot about bluespulse.com!
And...hahaha...I caught Neon's post earlier, and I almost had to clean off my screen... ;-)
ua
Racetrack has obviously never seen your tango. :wink:
SliceyJ
ua, how are you!? I'll never forget those crepes in SF! Somebody should have a "crepes and blues dancing" par-tay.
(I mean "crepes," not creeps.) ;-)
Keither
Dave from SF made crepes for us at Cheap Thrills this year. Mmmmm crepes.
bryn
Blues dancing is what you make it. Seriously.
If you really want to learn, people have listed off some great resources for you. It's impossible for me to tell you through Yehoodi what blues is really all about, but I guess the most important point is that it's not slow lindy, nor is it grinding.
I think of blues as an opportunity to stretch time and space. Everything is milked just that little bit more... and then released. Many of the adjectives I could give to blues also apply to lindy hop: grounded, connected, dynamic, improvisational, etc. And yet even without music, and regardless of tempo, I could tell you in a millisecond which dance I'm following because they are so different. Even when it looks like lindy, it doesn't feel like lindy.
It's such a complicated, diverse, and intricate dance that it really is what you make of it. If you want it to be crappy or creepy or boring, it will be. But I suggest you take classes and do research and dance with people who know what they're doing so that you can learn how to make it feel gritty and raw and alive or like chocolate velvet cake.
And listen to the music. The music ultimately tells you what to do.
Effervescent
My personal opinion on blues dance is that it's stupid. For me. To each their own. Hey...if you dig it, grind your lil'hips off.
It just doesn't work for me: if I am not attracted to a person, I certainly don't wanna be blues dancing with them. If I am attracted to them, I would actually prefer pursuing them off the dance floor...away from prying eyes. If I'm really, really attracted to them (like in a relationship with them), I'm not the kinda guy who gets off watching others in an intimate embrace with them. Not gonna happen.
-Eff
Taken by a Sicilian -Trazy
Ain't cha! -Eff
Keither
Eff's right. There is some level of intimacy involved. There has to be with that sort of close embrace. The same as you must have to dance tango, or balboa. It's difficult for many people, even dancers, to deal with that sort of casual physical and emotional intimacy at the fundamental level needed for a blues dance.
Sometimes, though, a dance is just a dance. And we say thank you when it's over and move on to the next partner.
Lindynymph
I actually feel similar about it. I will turn people down for blues dances simply because it's a blues dance, and honestly I don't really enjoy getting all drippy with someone I don't actually plan on taking home.
This isn't always the case, sometimes the dance is just a dance, but if I've ever turned you down for a blues dance just know that it's only because I don't want to dry hump you on the dancefloor, ask me the next up tempo number.
bryn
In most cases, though, it isn't a sexual intimacy. This is where many people get it wrong.
For some people, any kind of intimacy is too much. If that's you then by all means, I'm not trying to force you out of your comfort zone.
But the intimacy comes from the connection (and I'm not talking connection-to-genitalia), and can embrace any emotion.
Ogden
Hmmm....it s been a while since I had a Blues rant on Yehoodi...
So here is what I think is the most important thing to remember about Blues Dancing that many, many people completely forget, all the time:
It s just a dance.
There is no requirement for it to be intimate, emotional, or anything more than just a dance. The more people try to make it into some emotional, nigh-religious experience, the more difficult it will be to get people to ever check it out.
No one walked into Juke Joint in Louisiana in 1946 looking for an intimate dance experience . Other experiences? Yes. ;) AND, most often with the girl they brought, or a girl for whom they had intentions that went beyond the dance floor. Switching partners all night and dancing the way Blues is often danced today would likely have gotten a lot of people beaten up or shot by someone s boyfriend by the end of the night, back in the day.
With all that Blues music available, it s really hard to day that Blues has to be slow and intimate . Sure it can be intimate, but that is a choice made by the two people dancing and is in no way a requirement of the dance. Many people substitute pseudo-sexual, suggestive and sensual movement for intimacy without even knowing it, and confuse sexual and sensual, with intimate. I think intimate dances are great. If you have them, that is fantastic but I also think that truly intimate dances are generally the exception and not the rule. For me, they are a great find in a night of Blues Dancing, but they are not the goal of a night of Blues Dancing.
If you are uncomfortable in a dance, you should make yourself comfortable. Ladies, you have a left arm, get the space you need. Gentlemen, you have control of the frame, create the space you want. Both partners should take the time to figure out where the distance is comfortable for both of you. Leave your egos at the door. Check them with your coats. Just because someone doesn t want to dance close is not a rejection of you. Get over it, it s just a dance. If you can t have a fulfilling, fun dance with some distance between you, you are probably not being honest with yourself about the reasons you are Blues Dancing.
So make yourself comfortable. If your partner can t handle your level of comfort then the message that the universe is sending here, is about being considerate and conscientious of other people and their boundaries and is for them, NOT for you. Don t let anyone, ever, tell you that you have to be willing to cross some personal boundaries to dance this dance. If they want to use the dance as some sort of experiment and learning experience on how to push their boundaries for themselves, that s great...for them. If they start pushing those ideas on others, well, that s putting their desire/need before their partner s boundaries, and that s just spells trouble and scares people away.
As far as it having to be slow goes, well, anyone who has been to a national Blues event (Cheap Thrills, Down Home Blues, Red White and Blues, Emerald City, etc) in the past year will know that Blues Dancing is most certainly NOT always slow. In fact, I would say that at Red White and Blues, in Dallas ,3 weeks ago, a majority of the music over the weekend was moderate tempo or faster. And the floor was full of people dancing to those songs, and many of them were not doing swing-outs. Yet they managed to dance Blues just fine. If it s slow, it s because DJs and dancers are choosing for it to be, not because it is supposed to be.
Blues music runs through a huge span of time and is still being created today, much the same as it was in the past. Robert Johnson doesn t sound like Bessie Smith, doesn t sound like Sidney Bechet, doesn t sound like Muddy Waters, doesn t sound like BB King, doesn t sound like Percy Mayfield, doesn t sound like Howlin Wolf, doesn t sound like Robert Fulson, doesn t sound like Ray Charles, doesn t sound like Little Walter, doesn t sound like Fats Waller, doesn t sound like Stevie Ray Vaughn, doesn t sound like Kim Wilson, doesn t sound like Pinetop Perkins...
...and those are just a few of the better known artists.
Otis Redding, Dr. John, Paul Butterfield...you can go on and on and on.
There is such a huge range of sound that you get from the evolution of Blues Music. Some of it is just a hair s breadth away from Gospel, some of it is as far from church as you can get. We often dance to just a tiny, tiny, limited portion of the Blues music spectrum, mostly because people's ideas of what Blues Dancing should be are truly limiting the possibilities of what it could be.
edited to add a qualifier - I think that this happens most at local, smaller dances. It seems to me that the more nationally known DJs do a good job of covering much the spectrum, though they all have their favorites.
So get out and dance, try it out, dance however you like, or don t. Take a night to just enjoy the company of friends and watch to get a feel for the music and the people. Relax, it s just a dance, afterall.
NEON
Since Ogden showed up, I feel like I have to make a slight disclaimer. There are talented "blues" dancers out there. I can enjoy the occasional blues dance (even though 90 of what's thought of as blues is actually soul music) with another talented follow. But man, when you get a blues dance with a bump and grind type, or someone who's got body roles hardwired into their butt, I just want to cut and run. No pathetic loser blues dances for me thankyou. I can get all that makey-outy stuff elsewhere without having to leave a mark on some chicks jeans.
I also heard recently about an all-male blues jam and I think I threw up a little in my mouth.
that equals- NOT HOT!
SliceyJ
Once again, Ogden rules! Ogden for President! ;-)
Lindynymph
Maybe for not you....I want a video!
Lindynymph
Umm, yeah. Hence the boner in the hip. I don't feel like struggling to keep my personal space during a dance. I just say "no".
Ha!
It's BLUES DANCING. Not religious communion. I'll leave the intimacy to my friends and family, and God, thanks.
Random Guy in sweaty T-shirt will not get intimate with me. It's called having standards, and personal space boundaries. Not to mention good taste. Maybe it's not sexual to you, but as Ogden pointed out, back in the day that kind of "intimacy" on the dance floor would have led to more than a few crimes of passion and certainly some raised eyebrows.
Granted, this is not what I think blues dancing is. This is what I find at most blues events or parties. Gimme some soul wrenching Bessie Smith to dance with Falty, and then were talking.
Jerry
I like this explanation from Charlie and Heidi's website:
What Is Blues Dance?
Blues dance, like Lindy Hop and Swing, originated and evolved from African rhythms and movements. However, Blues dance was never widely practiced as a "social" or performance dance in the United States; so it developed and thrived in smoky juke joints and at Blues house parties, giving it a more intimate feel.
Because Blues dance lacked wider social approval and appeal, it remained strongly entrenched in African principles of movement, not only in the motion of the hips, but in the characteristic creation of, and dancing within, a boundary.
In addition, Blues dance is strongly tied to Blues music, and many aspects of Blues dance (for example, call and response, emotional intensity, and tension and release) are directly related to the music to which it is danced. There are many types of blues music (rural, urban, up-tempo, slow, electric, delta, modern), and therefore many types of Blues dance, all with very different nuances and emotions.
Some observers and dancers who have not studied modern slow Blues dance other than simply by observation overlook the nuances of the dance beyond its "sexy" side. To their eyes, the sensual appearance of the dance may overshadow its basis and structure. Blues dance at its best is rooted in subtle physical communication and connection with your partner and is almost impossible to learn to execute well simply by watching.
Blues dance enables intense individuality in expressing the music, emphasizing that the music, not the dancer, leads the dance; the dancer is simply the interpreter. Blues dance demonstrates the passion of the entire range of human emotions - from sadness to joy - not just sensuality. If you don't have a visceral reaction to the music, your partner, and the environment, then you are missing the true beauty of Blues dance.
Learning Blues dance enables the dancer to more fully understand dance concepts such as simplicity, clarity, creativity, expression, intensity, and musical and emotional interpretation that are critical to advanced social dancing of any kind.
Ogden
Hey, Don West and I did the stereotypical ballroom Tango march across the middle of that jam. Don't tell me that's not hot! :wink:
..and I got to cut in to the middle of it just so I could dip Jerry.
As for what you imagine it was like, read my post above regard song tempo and the range of possibilities in Blues music. I doubt it was at all like what you were imagining. Two guys dancing Bal had more contact that most of the dancing in that jam.
krarf
Alright, I'm gonna wade back into this, because looking back at my original post, I see that I probably left myself open to a lot of misinterpretation.
I understand that it's just a dance. I don't have a problem with interpreting the music. In fact, I love the blues and have been an avid collector for years.
I've thought a little bit more about what bugs me and think Neon might have hit it on the head. The blues dancing that I've seen has been all Beaver Clamp and Turbo [bleep!]Hammer moves. That's the sort of "intimacy" I am not into.
This thread has fallen into a semantic debate about intimacy v. sexuality v. something else v. God knows what else.
Of course it's just a dance. In fact, I'm sure I have danced to the blues on countless occasions. Have I been doing "blues dancing"? I don't know. There's a difference out there (it seems) between what I've been doing and "real" blues dancing (ie. with a defined basic, etc).
I sort of think of it like this... just because I can do a jig to In the Mood doesn't mean that I'm swing dancing.
I guess I'm looking for examples to follow. Where can I see it done well without a lot of grinding?
Keeping an open mind.....
NEON
That's my new Phrase of The Day.
You know, I've got to run and do some shopping maybe perform some Turbo [bleep!]Hammer Moves, get my oil changed. It's a a busy day today.
kudos to Lindynymph for "Boner in Follows' Hip." I especially appreciate the well placed apostrophe. Why one follow when you can go around poking several over the course of the evening.
Something else that I wanted to capture in my comment was the absurdity of modern Lindy influenced blues dancing participating in the legacy of older blues dancing. As if we have much of a clue what classic blues dancing looks like. The stuff I saw down in Clarksdale Mississippi certainly looks nothing like what I see on the lindy scene. I don't assume to be an authority, but I have to at least question what I see.
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