Don't know if the clip is in Spirit Moves or not, but this summer we worked with the Hot Shots on blues that was anything but bump and grind, and they were referencing a clip from the 40s. If you ever get a chance to see Hot Shots blues performances, they're truly wonderful.

Other than that I'm not sure, maybe Falty will weigh in on this.

Hey Neon, what is your little dancing guy? A bipedal marshmallow? A polar bear on prozak? It's cute! I've been meaning to ask.

Quoted from "OpeningMinds"
I absolutely love blues dancing - sure it's intimate, but for me (and as others have said) it's just a dance - it's not sexually intimate.

I hear this a lot and it's always 100 bull[bleep!]. Please. At least "back in the day" when they danced down & dirty there was none of this idiotic pretense involved.

Swifty - You're wrong. Please don't ascribe YOUR motivations to the dance community at large. There are plenty of us out there on a national level who are capable of dancing in close spaces with other without the need for leg humping or the desire to take our partner out to the back seat.

Quoted from "Keither"
Swifty - You're wrong. Please don't ascribe YOUR motivations to the dance community at large. There are plenty of us out there on a national level who are capable of dancing in close spaces with other without the need for leg humping or the desire to take our partner out to the back seat.

Actually, they're not my motivations as I don't do whatever it is people call "blues dancing." But I've been in these so-called "blues rooms" and I'm not blind. And most of the time I'm not even hearing blues, but that's a whole different story.

Krarf,

I think it's time we had a talk. I know it can be diffiicult to understand what you saw out on the dance floor, but it's perfectly natural. Sometimes, when a mommy loves a daddy, they express their love physically...

arthur

Thanks everybody. Big ups to Lindynymph and Neon. Neon, you know what I'm talkin' about. Lindynymph, I want to dance with you. No boner, I promise...

After all is said and done, this is what I heard, and what I figured from the start:

I should shut up and dance...

Frank

Now, to get back to what Frank was talking about:

Quoted from "krarf"
I've thought a little bit more about what bugs me and think Neon might have hit it on the head. The blues dancing that I've seen has been all Beaver Clamp and Turbo [bleep!]Hammer moves. That's the sort of "intimacy" I am not into.

I don't blame you. I'm an avid blues dancer and I don't want any girl (including my girlfriend) humping my leg during a dance. Nor do I have any urge to grind my genitalia on anyone. Yuck.

(Hey Swifty - this is an answer to your latest post.) I want to create a distinction (which, granted, some people will see as artificial) between people dancing the blues and people grinding all up on each other. Most people's impressions of "blues dancing" is what they've seen in the late night slow room at lindy exchanges. It's a lot of people grinding up on each other. Sometimes that's fun. Sometimes it's not. It's neither a good thing, nor a bad thing, but it's not modern blues dance. Not as it's being taught at a(n inter-)national level.

Quote
In fact, I'm sure I have danced to the blues on countless occasions. Have I been doing "blues dancing"? I don't know. There's a difference out there (it seems) between what I've been doing and "real" blues dancing (ie. with a defined basic, etc). I guess I'm looking for examples to follow. Where can I see it done well without a lot of grinding?

I think if you can keep the swingouts out of it, then you're probably a lot closer than you think. :wink: My question to you is, do you dance differently when you hear a blues song than when you hear big band or dixieland? Does your style change? If so, you're already well on your way to dancing the blues.

There's a caveat to watching old videos. A lot ot the video you see are the dancers showing off for the camera. I really can't speak to how much authenticity there is in terms of the dance.

After listening to Dawn Hampton talk about her experiences, I'll put it like this - when lindy hop started, there were no established moves. There were people dancing to the music and other people watching and emulating. We're in that seminal stage with modern blues dance right now. We're trying to figure it out. "Moves" and "basic steps" are created to assist people in learning how to move within the aesthetic.

Frank - you say you really enjoy blues music. That's what's important. Dance to the songs you want to dance to in ways that you want to dance to them. If you don't want to stand and sway back and forth, don't. As long as you're dancing what's in your heart, you're dancing the blues.

I'm not sure what time Summer and I are getting in, but I'd be more than happy to show you some of the basics of what's being taught as moden blues dance, most of which are historical steps that we've revived.

Quoted from "krarf"
This thread has fallen into a semantic debate about intimacy v. sexuality v. something else v. God knows what else.

Don't worry, it's not your fault. Most of the blues threads on Yehoodi turn out that way. You have to wade thru some of the justification B.S that is out there. Everyone out in Yehoodi land seems to be an expert in blues lately, whatever their own motivations are. Come to think of it, why don't we have this many experts on bal? :-)

Bottom line is, when you're dancing close, you have a line that you wouldn't want to cross and every person you dance with also has a line they probably wouldn't want to cross.

If you think about it, the same goes for every other kind of dance, not just blues dancing. It's not just about being uncomfortable because of intimacy. It's being uncomfortable because you're not used to dancing a certain way, maybe a move is a little embarrassing, or you're afraid people are watching, or your partner is judging you, or whatever. Yes, it's just a dance. But look at all the people in regular clubs who can't dance, or need to get drunk to dance. There is a comfort level to getting on the dance floor.

For blues dancing, if you like the music and you like dancing to it, then find where your comfort level lies. If you feel that this is the kind of dance you need to have a girlfriend or significant other to dance with, that's your perrogative. I'd say you don't need to, but again, it's about your enjoyment of the dance.

I've always loved Odgen's and Amanda's teaching style. I haven't gone to any of the "blues dancing" workshop weekends out there and I realize that there's a couple of great instructors who are working to legitimize the dance by labeling and categorizing moves. Maybe learning from those particular instructors will give you some enlightenment.

Quoted from "Keither"
(Hey Swifty - this is an answer to your latest post.) I want to create a distinction (which, granted, some people will see as artificial) between people dancing the blues and people grinding all up on each other. Most people's impressions of "blues dancing" is what they've seen in the late night slow room at lindy exchanges. It's a lot of people grinding up on each other. Sometimes that's fun. Sometimes it's not. It's neither a good thing, nor a bad thing, but it's not modern blues dance. Not as it's being taught at a(n inter-)national level.

Look, I'm just calling it as I'm seeing it. I DJ'd in what was supposed to be a blues room and played all sorts of blues music and saw a literally empty room for an hour. Then I was followed with Joe Cocker's "You Can Leave Your Hat On" and saw the room fill up with slow-ass swingouts, weird pseudo-West Coast and a [bleep!]load of dry humping. And really, I'm not the kind of person that's easily made uncomfortable and it skeeved me the hell out. It's been this way nearly every time I've walked into a "blues room."

And for the record, I have no problem with people wanting to dance to soul, R&B, funk, what-have-you, but calling that music and that dancing "blues" is completely artificial and, in my opinion, done purely because of some people's need to justify their desire to do this type of thing by defining it as a "real dance form."

People I know that call themselves "blues dancers" - ones I've argued with at length - do swingouts to 90bpm guitar blues and weird body-roll wiggles to songs at 160bpm. They clearly think this is "blues dancing," travel to "blues" exchanges and workshops, and are the ones spreading "blues" to the newbies and uneducated masses. And to me that's just bad dancing with a nice label on it.

(Ogden is not one of these people, as I've seen him dance and think he's the [bleep!]. I'm still not convinced I would call what he does a specific dance form but I guess we all draw the line somewhere different)

But if you don't think people call the late night bump & grind rooms at events "Blues Rooms" you are absolutely kidding yourself and need to get your head out of the sand. Most people have this impression you dislike because it's what they see all of the time.

I actually am more comfortable dancing blues with someone than bal. In blues I can push a guy away and create space. In bal you have to close and hugged right up against someone. When I dance blues, I try to keep my hips set back a little as to not rub against someone. I'd rather be doing slow turns and ochos than body rolls against someone.

I would recomend trying to get to a national blues workshop. As a lead you have a lot of control over how you want the dance to go. If you don't want a girl to body roll or be humping your leg, keep her a little bit farther away from you and don't lead it (though some girls are like jello and wiggle anyways). If you need to only dance with girls that you are comfortable with. Watch the floor and see if there are girls that would look fun to dance with. Hang out on the couch and talk to someone then dance with them. Ask other leads who to dance with that you don't know very well. Just make sure that you have fun and enjoy playing with the music.

ps. save me a dance at soflex, I promise I won't hump your leg.

Quoted from "Swifty"
Look, I'm just calling it as I'm seeing it.

And I'm not disagreeing that there are plenty of "blues rooms" with no blues being played and lots of people dancing skeevily because that's what they think is okay.

My point is that there are a growing number of people who are interested in blues dance as an actual interpretive partner dance and not just an excuse to grind on random people of the opposite sex. Ogden is one of them. I would consider myself another.

Hopefully the number of people bumping and grinding will decrease as people learn the framework and the aesthetic of modern blues dance. I'm doing my best to help with that here in FL. For now, the best weapon we have to help reduce the grind dancing is education.

It's a term I stole from LindyChef, because I think it is exactly what we're doing. There's a long history of dance to the blues and slow music. But, that's not what we're doing today. That's not how today's dance evolved.

Today's blues dancing is a combination of vintage dances (slow drag, shake bake, fishtail, struttin', etc.), hip hop, tango, lindy hop, west coast swing, and so on. This is a new dance. And while there are a lot of great reasons to relate vintage movement and incorporate it into our dancing, that doesn't make what we're doing any less of our own thing.

Quoted from "krarf"
Alright, I'm gonna wade back into this, because looking back at my original post, I see that I probably left myself open to a lot of misinterpretation.

I think a lot of these folks don't know who you are. I remember you from about 5-6 years ago back when I first got started (assuming you're the same Frank I knew from DC), and you were already amazing back then. If they were aware of how fantastic a dancer you are, they'd probably have a different perspective on their answers. So, other than being a legend in my mind, and possibly a few old timers from DC, you're kind of unknown on this forum, as am I.

If you want some good instruction and a few ideas on what is and what isn't blues (dance wise), ask Mike. He was teaching a full series with Donna for a long time. I don't know if there are politics I'm not aware of from the scene or the dance team, but he seems to be the local guru for the blues lovers. I don't have any of his (or Donna's) contact information, but you should be able to PM him (or her) on SODC.

Quoted from "Keither"
It's a term I stole from LindyChef, because I think it is exactly what we're doing. There's a long history of dance to the blues and slow music. But, that's not what we're doing today. That's not how today's dance evolved. Today's blues dancing is a combination of vintage dances (slow drag, shake bake, fishtail, struttin', etc.), hip hop, tango, lindy hop, west coast swing, and so on. This is a new dance. And while there are a lot of great reasons to relate vintage movement and incorporate it into our dancing, that doesn't make what we're doing any less of our own thing.

Didja ever notice that if you replace "blues dancing" with "lindy hop" you have the exact same argument that justified "wiggly hop" about 3 years ago?

It's not a new thing, it's a mash-up of different dance steps. That's all blues dancing has ever been -- just moving your body to music however you feel like it. There's no need to legitimize or justify it.