Quoted from "Ogden"
Dancing is dancing, take Lindy off the pedestal. People dance to have a good time. We treat Lindy like it's folk art and seem to think that it always was, but at one time, it was just a dance. It may have even been a lot more fun when it was just dancing and not "Lindy Hop". It's nice to step out on the floor and dance without having to worry about preserving that leagacy.

Ogden, just to be clear, no where in this discussion did I once mention Lindy Hop. I don't have it on a pedestal and my issues with what I see in "blues rooms" and from "blues dancers" have absolutely nothing to do with Lindy Hop whatsoever.

To be honest, if people just called it all "dancing," while I may still be creeped out by certain individualistic behaviour, I wouldn't be nearly as irritated by the scene on the whole.

i dunno.

i know i'm in the minority, but "creepy" IS subjective and once anyone is labelled that way, it's damn near impossible to get rid of it. and i happen to disagree re: the people in question (er, i think). but that's MY personal opinion.

but hey, for all i know, i could be person a or b. i'm just sayin.

This from the guy who gave me "Girls Gone Wild" schwag ;)

Like you, Alligator?

Last time I checked, you and your unnamed follow were not authorities on the national blues scene any more than I am.

Nando,

My point is that when you basically say "two people from this list are creepy, but I'm not going to tell you who," it paints all of the people there in that light. If someone doesn't know Charlie and Heidi for example, they might let that doubt fall on them ... I'm not comfortable with that, but I know where you're coming from.

My 2 cents.

A dance is just a dance ... we put our own meanings on top of it, and those meanings I find more enlightening than anything else. As with anyone's hobbies, the passion and energy that we put into them are sometimes reflective of more than just liking a hobby.

And that's why I've pretty much given up on arguing these points ... I hate arguing against hidden meanings ...

never thought i'd see the day when ogden posted an inane, insipid question.

(iow, anytime, anyplace.)

You're right Keither. Apologies if I feel I can stand on my own two feet and give that observation. I'm not the "official" authority. I suppose I need to empty out my savings and attend every blues weekend out there in order to become a viable source. And I suppose if I ask someone who I feel is a respected follow, she must be nobody important too, even though I'm sure most who know me know I wouldn't throw that term to a follow lightly.

I've separated myself from the exchange scene for the past year. But I've still been around Nationally and feel that my observations are valid. Plus, while my views don't make me popular among some of the blues crowd, my discourse is something that is on other people's minds, including the initial poster of this thread.

I will probably be taking a few trips back out in the next couple of months, so the blues crowd that disagrees with me is welcome to frag me or prove me wrong.

And you guys figured it out. The creeps are Ogden and Holly, but since they're now going to be dancing with each other from now on, the Blues scene has been SAVED!!! Hallelujah!

Quoted from "krarf"
my biggest problem is that blues dancing requires an awful lot of "sudden intimacy"

Tape it to your leg.

Quoted from "Swifty"
People I know that call themselves "blues dancers" - ones I've argued with at length - do swingouts to 90bpm guitar blues and weird body-roll wiggles to songs at 160bpm.

You know, you could've pm'd me about this instead of calling my ass out on yehoodi. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Time to break out the CSI light.

Quoted from "Alligator"
I also know remember back in the day certain National instructors who were willing to teach "teachers." They would give workshops on teaching and educating their students. There was a desire there for people to take those classes. I haven't seen as much of that in the blues community.

The Portland, OR blues community has taken this seriously and is a few steps down the path already: those who have helped grow the blues community were given a free ride to learn from Solomon when he was last in town. If things work out, we'll have Ogden and Amanda out here, too, for more of the same. I'll chat with Scott W. and see if we can't add one more class or at least a drinkin' escapade focused on the teaching aspects involved.

-Joshua

Quoted from "ua"
To me, calling it "blues dancing" is peoples' way of recognizing the roots of the dance; it's a matter of respect.

Roots or not, what's done in most blues rooms these days has very little to do with blues. Even Ogden agreed on that:

Quoted from "Ogden"
I bugs me because I use the term "Blues Dance" to describe some of my dancing and I don't want people thinking that what I do is what they see going on some dance floors as "Blues Dancing".

Honestly, why not just call it club dancing or something? Cuz that's really what it is, especially given the predominant music I hear coming out of blues rooms. And there's nothing wrong with that. To me it's like looking at a West Coast couple and saying they're doing lindy hop. Sure, they're related, and one has roots in the other, but they're hardly the same dance. I'm with Swifty. Call a spade a spade and don't sweat it.

To be honest, I think this is mostly a moot debate. Most lindy hoppers that enjoy blues are in the group that enjoy the club version over the other. As long as there's a demand, "modern blues dancing," or whatever you want to call it, will thrive. And that's fine with me. I just won't go to blues weekends. shrug

Quoted from "grasshopper"
To be honest, I think this is mostly a moot debate. Most lindy hoppers that enjoy blues are in the group that enjoy the club version over the other. As long as there's a demand, "modern blues dancing," or whatever you want to call it, will thrive. And that's fine with me. I just won't go to blues weekends. shrug

The point was, there are those of us who are trying to draw a distinction between modern blues dance and club dancing. From page 2:

Quoted from "Keither"
I want to create a distinction (which, granted, some people will see as artificial) between people dancing the blues and people grinding all up on each other. Most people's impressions of "blues dancing" is what they've seen in the late night slow room at lindy exchanges. It's a lot of people grinding up on each other. Sometimes that's fun. Sometimes it's not. It's neither a good thing, nor a bad thing, but it's not modern blues dance. Not as it's being taught at a(n inter-)national level.

i think lindy hoppers are whats wrong with blues dancing.

ill give my disclaimer first.

yes most of the major players in blues dancing also consider themselves lindyhoppers. yes, modern blues dancing would be nowhere with out lindyhoppers. and yes, blanket generalizations are never always true. that said, allow me a little liberty here...

more often than not, lindyhoppers create "blues rooms" at exchanges or house parties. late night rooms are prone to some hot sweaty sexyness. many people enjoy that, and thats great. lindyhoppers pass by and see lindyhoppers doing "blues" to sexual healing and think eww. (blues dancers will walk by and think the same thing, really though its more about what they are labeling their dancing, well sometimes its just eww.)

lindy hoppers either think, "i already know how to blues dance, i do it in 'blues rooms' all the time", or "thats that grindy crap, im not interested" and they never take a class or go to a workshop weekend. they never have the benefit of seeing examples of blues dancing.

now is this true of all lindyhoppers? of course not. is this not true of blues dancers? of course not. when i say that many people enjoy some hot sweaty sexyness, i mean people. will some people dance like this all the time? yes.

in reality, most of what lindhoppers think is going on at blues parties and in blues rooms, is exactly what they think it is. this does not mean that is blues dancing. as many have said it isnt even to blues music. the most frustrating thing about blues threads on yehoodi is as follows: what people see being done out there, isnt what im doing or what im talking about when i say blues dancing. "blues dancing" is something else.

what i see happening is, people will show up at blues weekends expecting one thing and will find something else, and their dancing will change. by the end of the weekend i can play a drasticly different set than i can at the begining of the weekend. over the course of the weekend people will gain the tools to dance to a much wider range of blues music.

and dance to some robert johnson bitches!!!