There are so many events for girls/follows, e.g. US Girl Jam, CA Girl Jam, Midwest Girl Jam, and Southern Belle Swing Bash ......., etc. And, I seldom see event(s) especially focus on guys/leads. How come???Just curious. Maybe there are some events like that, and I just do not know them.
Originally posted Monday, August 28, 2006 (5 years ago)
Quoted from "Fad23" Rather than have a single-sex focused event, I feel it might be more advantageous for event organizers to consciously address women's styling and men's styling in their class curricula. These kinds of classes were present ten years ago. Why aren't they apparent nowadays?
At least Camp Jitterbug 2005 had several classes specifically addressing this type of topics, if I remember correctly (and probably did in 2006 as well). They offered very good teaching materials, and helped me being aware of styling and how to come up with new ideas.
I congratulate the efforts of the organizers around the country for those girl-jam type workshops, and the efforts of the followers who are trying to brush up their dancing.
I would be perfectly happy going to such an event, getting in free, help aspiring follows to get better. I can also be more aware of what follows are trying to do. Moreover, I can get some ideas from follow's styling, modify it to make it my own. 8)
However...
It does make me think twice about traveling to those events, as a lead, just because it does sound a little bit creepy, to go to a follow's workshop alone (I travel by myself). :shrug:
In that context, I wonder how much creepy leads those girl-jam workshops attracts... :roll:
Originally posted Monday, August 28, 2006 (5 years ago)
Quoted from "mousethief"
It's not homophobia; it's about getting laid. Seriously, if your average guy is going to travel for a dance weekend, he wants to see and dance with CHICKS. Oh my God, what a f cking concept. If he wanted to spend a weekend with some men, he could do any number of other activities. Dancing is - and always has been - an outlet for meeting members of the (opposite) desired sex. Not 100 , no, but our best efforts to sanitize it have done nothing to curb the instinct.
:thumbup:
Too funny! Look, if you really want to spend a hitload of money to go to a weekend event and dance with men, there is no need to organize it. Just click here:
http://www.whiteparty.org/
Originally posted Monday, August 28, 2006 (5 years ago)
Let's say that my opinions about partnering at workshops are based on observations and discussion. It should be stated that I'm of the opinion that understandings of balance, counterbalance and compression are vital no matter how much a single partner practices said techniques.
As Jacob said, there are many maneuvers that require counterbalance. From my memory of the California Girl Jam last year, many of the follows were especially frustrated during a class that tried to explain Jewel's swivel technique and pike. Of course, techniques requiring counterbalance might be workable against a steady pole or doorknob, but there's nothing like an experienced lead to give a follow's knowledge an appropriate context.
Whether you use counterbalance or not, having another person in the mix creates a dynamic that is irreproducible alone. A partner can learn all the footwork or body-styling known to humanity, but placing it in the lead-follow blender changes the way it works.
So if there are no leads in follow-specific classes or workshops, follows should probably be encouraged to take some work home and to figure it out with a partner. If this is the case, why not just include the lead in the first place?
Also, there's no such thing as a solo call-and-response.
Mouth
A lead may also choose to take the follow where he feels she wants to go, or to challenge the same impulse. Leading is not purely a matter of pulling rank. There are subtleties to the relationship that can only be coaxed out during a rapport. That said, there is no guarantee that any partner will be agreeable, lead or follow, or that the lead will have the skill to communicate this way.
Of course, no one has succesfully drawn the line between hi-jacking and playfulness.
Part of the follow end of the lead and follow dynamic is that she must learn to take changes of direction. One cool thing about following is that styling choices change with circumstances. For instance a lead may tuck a free spin meaning that the foot the follow might hope to shuffle in front might have to remain up for a moment longer and then shuffle behind.
I'm going to have to try to apply this theory to my follow styling. I have some tap simple footwork that I worked out a while ago. I should have a lead run me through some swingouts and variations and make an observation about how those easy patterns are changed.
Originally posted Friday, March 2, 2007 (5 years ago)
Stay tuned. . . Denver is planning a national leads only workshop for November. We have confirmed instructors from across the nation. More details will be coming soon. We are also working on special (potentially free) workshops for follows only in order to entice them to come to this event. If you have questions, please email me at swinginstyle (at) gmail (dot) com
Originally posted Friday, March 2, 2007 (5 years ago)
Sounds fun, Kenny.
By the way, for all of you who're posting about how guys don't want to dance with guys, guys don't want to go to an event where they won't get laid, etc...
...the girl jams I've been to enticed guys to participate with free classes.
It didn't work as well as we would've hoped in Minneapolis (some classes were 3:1 after a lot of begging), but there was a pretty good ratio (1.5:1 at worst) when I went to Seattle's girl jam. That was just in the classes.
The way Seattle enticed men to come was by offering them classes where they would get directly applicable instruction. If they took 4 partnered classes as leads, they were eligible to take as many solo classes as they had time for. (The schedule had one partnered class going on simultaneously with one solo class.) Again, I don't know if this made the ratio better than Minneapolis (or, apparently, California!) or if there was just a bigger pool of interested leads in Seattle.
However, as far as I know, these are definitely not just one-sex events.
Also, as I said on another thread, girl jams weren't just started for lessons for follows--so all the "Why no guy jams" explanations that look at girl jams from a student perspective and try to rationalize why guys don't need them are missing a very important point.
If it were just about female students, girl jams might not have come into existence at all.
A huge impetus for girl jams was to get teachers who were women hired more often on their own merits (rather than as part of a couple or as the choice follow of a man hired on his own merits)
Originally posted Friday, March 2, 2007 (5 years ago)
Quoted from "Bob the Builder" If someone was to run a Guy Jam and hardcore feminists would get moody and start moaning. :lol:
Heh. (Actually, trivia of the day: many feminists would love to see instances of recognizing the different genders doubled. Many feminists feel that in walks of life where a huge amount of progress has been made for women, it's now time to stop sticking us into a category and treating men as a default. Drawing attention to two categories of human being and treating no one as "default" or "normal," they feel, is one of the last things that needs to be done to make the elimination of maleness as "default" for human beings come true (as I said, only in walks of life where things are otherwise pretty darned equal). So yeah, many hardcore feminists would love to see "girl jam" and "guy jam" and "learn to dance jam" rather than "girl jam" and "learn to dance jam!"
All it begs the question of is--are women treated well enough compared to men in the world of swing instruction that the cost of having only "girl jams" is greater than the benefit of having only "girl jams?" Many here are arguing that yes, from a student's perspective, they are. What I'm not sure has been analyzed yet is whether they are from the perspective of a teacher who wants to be hired.)
Originally posted Friday, March 2, 2007 (5 years ago)
I would love to see "mixed" workshops/weekends/jams that set aside time lead or follow only classes or feedback sessions. maybe not a whole hour, but a 30 minutes or a lunch break where each side can ask those questions which might come off as pointed or perhaps off-color in a mixed class.
Originally posted Friday, March 2, 2007 (5 years ago)
Quoted from "Fad23"
There definitely are guys who are hungry for new moves - most guys are. I don't believe that most guys are hungry for things they would learn in a guys-only environment.
Perhaps we could question what would best be learned in a sausage-fest? Discounting the teaching guys to follow thing (not because it's not a worthy cause, but because it's a separate set of disciplines than I'd like to focus on) what would be best or easiest for dancers to learn in a single sex environment?
Gotta run. Curious to hear what everyone thinks.
Yeah, I wonder this, too. FWIW, my advice to any guy looking to improve his swing in a non-partnered setting would be to start taking tap classes. I took a tap class for a couple of months. I had a blast and I feel that it helped my musicality. Unfortunately the teacher moved away and I haven't taken the time to find another tap class conveniently located near me (it's on my list of things to do).
I know it's been said that most guys' priority is learning new moves. So let me just say that MY top priority is improving my connection and partnership skills. I don't enjoy feeling like I'm telling my follow what to do; I'm much happier when I feel as if I'm having a nonverbal conversation with her through our connection. I really wish there were more classes and workshops that focused on this.
So, instead of having a guy jam, how about offering something like "Basic Moves for Advanced Dancers"? Just don't offer it in the same time slot as "Advanced Dips, Tricks and other Flashy Stuff" because if you do, no one will show up.
Also, I hereby promise to show up for any girl-jam in my area. I love providing connection & counterbalance for a follow that wants to strut her stuff.
Originally posted Wednesday, September 5, 2007 (4 years ago)
I just thought I'd do the nice thing of enticing follows, so the guys wouldn't spend all weekend dancing with each other. However, to each their own. Don't forget to register.
Originally posted Saturday, September 8, 2007 (4 years ago)
So the Denver kids beat me to the first event focused on guys, but nevertheless CA GUY JAM will be hosted during the same weekend as CA GIRL JAM, February 15th-17th 2008 in San Diego. Guys and girls will be separated on their own to work on their own styles, solo dancing, and general movement. On the last day of workshops, they'll come together and every other class will be focused on either guys/girls. That way the guys can work on their stuff and the girls can do the same, without the worry that we won't have enough girls/guys. This has been the ultimate plan, first girl jam, then guy jam, then bringing both together. Please, guys, GO to the Oldwest Sausage Fest, you'll find it very beneficial and inspiring.
In order to keep this dance alive we need leads!! It's as simple as that. As far as I'm concerned there are too many leads copying other leads and we need the copy caters to get more style!! Style is just an extension of your personality, an expression. There are certain leads that always make the top five in contests, so it's obvious that there's a demand for leads to really push themselves. I know I'm personally sick of dancing with guys who try to emulate Todd, Skye, or Mike Falty because if I wanted to dance their style I would freakin ask them. I like dancing with those guys because their style fits their personality and that's who THEY ARE. I dance with various people because I want to hear what they have to tell me through movement, plus I like to try new things, new styles, push myself; I simply can't do that unless the other person is doing the same. Well I can, but it just gets boring and I get frustrated that the lead I'm dancing with is just TRYING to emulate someone else's style. What ends up happening is that there becomes this ruling style that the girls are FORCED to emulate because all the guys are limiting themselves to just dancing like 3-5 people that are considered most popular or whatever you want to call it. That doesn't help the preservation and evolution of our dance, does it??? There are too many up and coming leads out there that need a little push to get the ball rolling. The reason we have girl jams is because we don't have enough leads, putting together guy jams will tackle the very reason we have follow centered workshops in the first place. I'm so please there are three pages on this thread!! I had no idea and I skimmed through some of the comments, so I wanted to share some of my thoughts to you. This is just my opinion of course and my point of view, feel free to disagree or think what you will, but the bottom line is......
WE GOTTA KEEP THE LINDY AND VINTAGE DANCING ALIVE.
Stay tuned for more info. on CA Guy and Girl Jams!!!!
"Style is everyting" as quoted by Skip on the Lords of Dogtown documentary. Just watched it last night....hehe.
Originally posted Sunday, September 9, 2007 (4 years ago)
Thanks Giselle. Likewise, I would encourage leads to attend CA Guy Jam next year. It's important that guys discover their own style and push themselves to the next level. Events like these can only help.
Originally posted Monday, September 10, 2007 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "2XBlessed" ...... Please, guys, GO to the Oldwest Sausage Fest, you'll find it very beneficial and inspiring .........
And, WE GOTTA KEEP THE LINDY AND VINTAGE DANCING ALIVE.
Giselle
I ADMIRE ALL THE GUYS WHO GO TO THE OLDWEST SAUSAGE FEST.
Originally posted Thursday, May 8, 2008 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "Ron1319" We did a small guys-only workshop here in Sacramento in November. It went really well. Ryan Borkenhagen helped us put it together.
Ron
How did you determine if the guys were small enough for the workshop?
Originally posted Thursday, May 8, 2008 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "SHORTYJOY"
Quoted from "Ron1319" We did a small guys-only workshop here in Sacramento in November. It went really well. Ryan Borkenhagen helped us put it together.
Ron
How did you determine if the guys were small enough for the workshop?
How come no Guy Jam(s)???
There are so many events for girls/follows, e.g. US Girl Jam, CA Girl Jam, Midwest Girl Jam, and Southern Belle Swing Bash ......., etc. And, I seldom see event(s) especially focus on guys/leads. How come???Just curious. Maybe there are some events like that, and I just do not know them.
Page(s): < Previous 1 2 3 (87 items total)
At least Camp Jitterbug 2005 had several classes specifically addressing this type of topics, if I remember correctly (and probably did in 2006 as well). They offered very good teaching materials, and helped me being aware of styling and how to come up with new ideas.
I congratulate the efforts of the organizers around the country for those girl-jam type workshops, and the efforts of the followers who are trying to brush up their dancing. I would be perfectly happy going to such an event, getting in free, help aspiring follows to get better. I can also be more aware of what follows are trying to do. Moreover, I can get some ideas from follow's styling, modify it to make it my own. 8)
However...
It does make me think twice about traveling to those events, as a lead, just because it does sound a little bit creepy, to go to a follow's workshop alone (I travel by myself). :shrug:
In that context, I wonder how much creepy leads those girl-jam workshops attracts... :roll:
:thumbup: Too funny! Look, if you really want to spend a hitload of money to go to a weekend event and dance with men, there is no need to organize it. Just click here: http://www.whiteparty.org/
Let's say that my opinions about partnering at workshops are based on observations and discussion. It should be stated that I'm of the opinion that understandings of balance, counterbalance and compression are vital no matter how much a single partner practices said techniques.
As Jacob said, there are many maneuvers that require counterbalance. From my memory of the California Girl Jam last year, many of the follows were especially frustrated during a class that tried to explain Jewel's swivel technique and pike. Of course, techniques requiring counterbalance might be workable against a steady pole or doorknob, but there's nothing like an experienced lead to give a follow's knowledge an appropriate context.
Whether you use counterbalance or not, having another person in the mix creates a dynamic that is irreproducible alone. A partner can learn all the footwork or body-styling known to humanity, but placing it in the lead-follow blender changes the way it works.
So if there are no leads in follow-specific classes or workshops, follows should probably be encouraged to take some work home and to figure it out with a partner. If this is the case, why not just include the lead in the first place?
Also, there's no such thing as a solo call-and-response.
Mouth A lead may also choose to take the follow where he feels she wants to go, or to challenge the same impulse. Leading is not purely a matter of pulling rank. There are subtleties to the relationship that can only be coaxed out during a rapport. That said, there is no guarantee that any partner will be agreeable, lead or follow, or that the lead will have the skill to communicate this way.
Of course, no one has succesfully drawn the line between hi-jacking and playfulness.
Part of the follow end of the lead and follow dynamic is that she must learn to take changes of direction. One cool thing about following is that styling choices change with circumstances. For instance a lead may tuck a free spin meaning that the foot the follow might hope to shuffle in front might have to remain up for a moment longer and then shuffle behind.
I'm going to have to try to apply this theory to my follow styling. I have some tap simple footwork that I worked out a while ago. I should have a lead run me through some swingouts and variations and make an observation about how those easy patterns are changed.
If someone was to run a Guy Jam and hardcore feminists would get moody and start moaning. :lol:
You would be much better of creating a Guys Pub Crawl. I m sure you would get a lot more guys interested. :wink:
:dunno:
B
Hardcore feminist checking in. I would have no problem, in principle, with a guy jam. It just seems redundant, as has been mentioned.
No, bar crawls are more fun with women too. ;)
Martinis do not contain vodka. —Rachel Maddow
Stay tuned. . . Denver is planning a national leads only workshop for November. We have confirmed instructors from across the nation. More details will be coming soon. We are also working on special (potentially free) workshops for follows only in order to entice them to come to this event. If you have questions, please email me at swinginstyle (at) gmail (dot) com
Weird. I'll be interested to see how it turns out.
Sounds fun, Kenny.
By the way, for all of you who're posting about how guys don't want to dance with guys, guys don't want to go to an event where they won't get laid, etc...
...the girl jams I've been to enticed guys to participate with free classes.
It didn't work as well as we would've hoped in Minneapolis (some classes were 3:1 after a lot of begging), but there was a pretty good ratio (1.5:1 at worst) when I went to Seattle's girl jam. That was just in the classes.
The way Seattle enticed men to come was by offering them classes where they would get directly applicable instruction. If they took 4 partnered classes as leads, they were eligible to take as many solo classes as they had time for. (The schedule had one partnered class going on simultaneously with one solo class.) Again, I don't know if this made the ratio better than Minneapolis (or, apparently, California!) or if there was just a bigger pool of interested leads in Seattle.
However, as far as I know, these are definitely not just one-sex events.
Also, as I said on another thread, girl jams weren't just started for lessons for follows--so all the "Why no guy jams" explanations that look at girl jams from a student perspective and try to rationalize why guys don't need them are missing a very important point.
If it were just about female students, girl jams might not have come into existence at all.
A huge impetus for girl jams was to get teachers who were women hired more often on their own merits (rather than as part of a couple or as the choice follow of a man hired on his own merits)
Heh. (Actually, trivia of the day: many feminists would love to see instances of recognizing the different genders doubled. Many feminists feel that in walks of life where a huge amount of progress has been made for women, it's now time to stop sticking us into a category and treating men as a default. Drawing attention to two categories of human being and treating no one as "default" or "normal," they feel, is one of the last things that needs to be done to make the elimination of maleness as "default" for human beings come true (as I said, only in walks of life where things are otherwise pretty darned equal). So yeah, many hardcore feminists would love to see "girl jam" and "guy jam" and "learn to dance jam" rather than "girl jam" and "learn to dance jam!" All it begs the question of is--are women treated well enough compared to men in the world of swing instruction that the cost of having only "girl jams" is greater than the benefit of having only "girl jams?" Many here are arguing that yes, from a student's perspective, they are. What I'm not sure has been analyzed yet is whether they are from the perspective of a teacher who wants to be hired.)
Weird? I think needed or awesome. Anyway, I'll be interested also in how this turns out.
Dude. Guy Jams would just be full of macho testosterone.
Might as well call it a lindy sausage party or something.
Regardless, I sure as hell would love to be attending said sausage party.
I would love to see "mixed" workshops/weekends/jams that set aside time lead or follow only classes or feedback sessions. maybe not a whole hour, but a 30 minutes or a lunch break where each side can ask those questions which might come off as pointed or perhaps off-color in a mixed class.
Yeah, I wonder this, too. FWIW, my advice to any guy looking to improve his swing in a non-partnered setting would be to start taking tap classes. I took a tap class for a couple of months. I had a blast and I feel that it helped my musicality. Unfortunately the teacher moved away and I haven't taken the time to find another tap class conveniently located near me (it's on my list of things to do).
I know it's been said that most guys' priority is learning new moves. So let me just say that MY top priority is improving my connection and partnership skills. I don't enjoy feeling like I'm telling my follow what to do; I'm much happier when I feel as if I'm having a nonverbal conversation with her through our connection. I really wish there were more classes and workshops that focused on this.
So, instead of having a guy jam, how about offering something like "Basic Moves for Advanced Dancers"? Just don't offer it in the same time slot as "Advanced Dips, Tricks and other Flashy Stuff" because if you do, no one will show up.
Also, I hereby promise to show up for any girl-jam in my area. I love providing connection & counterbalance for a follow that wants to strut her stuff.
Guy dancers are full of macho testosterone?
ducks out quickly
( :-P )
We did a small guys-only workshop here in Sacramento in November. It went really well. Ryan Borkenhagen helped us put it together.
Ron
Here's information on a workshop weekend focused on the Leads. It's being hosted in Denver, Co November 2-4. Check it out. It will be awesome.
Signed up :P. There are a few follow classes too.
Follows who don't want to get wet shouldn't dance with me.
Follows? We don't need no stinkin' follows. besides, they have cooties. duh. --R
y i no haz signature? Come on people, make with the funny.
I just thought I'd do the nice thing of enticing follows, so the guys wouldn't spend all weekend dancing with each other. However, to each their own. Don't forget to register.
Another one in CA:
http://www.guyjam.us
Follows who don't want to get wet shouldn't dance with me.
So the Denver kids beat me to the first event focused on guys, but nevertheless CA GUY JAM will be hosted during the same weekend as CA GIRL JAM, February 15th-17th 2008 in San Diego. Guys and girls will be separated on their own to work on their own styles, solo dancing, and general movement. On the last day of workshops, they'll come together and every other class will be focused on either guys/girls. That way the guys can work on their stuff and the girls can do the same, without the worry that we won't have enough girls/guys. This has been the ultimate plan, first girl jam, then guy jam, then bringing both together. Please, guys, GO to the Oldwest Sausage Fest, you'll find it very beneficial and inspiring.
In order to keep this dance alive we need leads!! It's as simple as that. As far as I'm concerned there are too many leads copying other leads and we need the copy caters to get more style!! Style is just an extension of your personality, an expression. There are certain leads that always make the top five in contests, so it's obvious that there's a demand for leads to really push themselves. I know I'm personally sick of dancing with guys who try to emulate Todd, Skye, or Mike Falty because if I wanted to dance their style I would freakin ask them. I like dancing with those guys because their style fits their personality and that's who THEY ARE. I dance with various people because I want to hear what they have to tell me through movement, plus I like to try new things, new styles, push myself; I simply can't do that unless the other person is doing the same. Well I can, but it just gets boring and I get frustrated that the lead I'm dancing with is just TRYING to emulate someone else's style. What ends up happening is that there becomes this ruling style that the girls are FORCED to emulate because all the guys are limiting themselves to just dancing like 3-5 people that are considered most popular or whatever you want to call it. That doesn't help the preservation and evolution of our dance, does it??? There are too many up and coming leads out there that need a little push to get the ball rolling. The reason we have girl jams is because we don't have enough leads, putting together guy jams will tackle the very reason we have follow centered workshops in the first place. I'm so please there are three pages on this thread!! I had no idea and I skimmed through some of the comments, so I wanted to share some of my thoughts to you. This is just my opinion of course and my point of view, feel free to disagree or think what you will, but the bottom line is......
WE GOTTA KEEP THE LINDY AND VINTAGE DANCING ALIVE.
Stay tuned for more info. on CA Guy and Girl Jams!!!!
"Style is everyting" as quoted by Skip on the Lords of Dogtown documentary. Just watched it last night....hehe.
:) Giselle
Thanks Giselle. Likewise, I would encourage leads to attend CA Guy Jam next year. It's important that guys discover their own style and push themselves to the next level. Events like these can only help.
I ADMIRE ALL THE GUYS WHO GO TO THE OLDWEST SAUSAGE FEST.
How did you determine if the guys were small enough for the workshop?
Random sampling.
Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?
They had them dance with Mouth.
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