Wow, rik, given how many threads have done just that

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make a coherent argument about the relationship of blues to lindy hop, but historically and currently

I'm really surprised that there is any issue. Blues, in my experience, is just further along the continuum of vernacular dance, with such serious emphasis on musicality and connection. In fact, just as I've never met a balboa-er or shagger who wasn't also a lindy hopper, I haven't run across any blues folks who didn't start out with lindy hop. It's not like you can evolve to blues from tango or some other dance form. I don't think it's any different from posting about the balboa weekend or a workship with Eric Fenn. BTW, a quick search of the news forum returns almost 50 articles if you search on "hip hop". Just sayin'.

Can you be more specific about your concerns?

Putting my personal preferences regarding blues dancing aside for the moment - The-Powers-That-Be of Yehoodi need to decide what they want Yehoodi to be before Yehoodites can seriously debate the merits of including blues events and announcements on the website. It Yehoodi a website for a hardcore hep-cat swinger (of any kind) or is it a site specifically serving the Lindy Hop community and only the Lindy Hop community?

If Yehoodi intends to be "lindy hop-oriented" as Rik suggests above, then blues, balboa, shag, jitterbug (6-count swing), jive, etc probably should not be featured on the site.

However, if Yehoodi wants to represent and serve the larger swing dance scene as a whole, I do not see how you can exclude one (blues), while including others (balboa).

My personal opinion is that the line between what is lindy hop and what is not is a difficult and controversial thing to determine. Since the news has recently featured items regarding balboa, west coast swing, solo jazz & Charleston and other dances, specifically excluding blues doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. Also, Yehoodi Radio regularly features blues songs and musicians, and had a recognized blues instructor (Damon) as a featured DJ a few months ago. Threads discussing the aesthetic, merits, and popularity of blues dancing have been among the most active on the boards in the last year.

I would suggest that it's in Yehoodi's best interests to reach out to as many people as possible that are interested in dancing to the music of the first-half of the 20th century, as they are really few and far between in the grand scheme of things. By doing so, it would both solidify Yehoodi as the go-to site for such a thing, and also opens the doors to blues dancers discovering Charleston, west coast swing dancers discovering balboa, shaggers discovering hand dance, etc.

I would love to see Yehoodi radio branch out to possibly have shows that feature the music preferred by blues dancers, Charleston aficionados, balboaists and shaggers. There could also possibly some discussion by respected DJs, instructors, and dancers of these sub-scenes as to what's in the music that makes them want to chose a dance or dances when they come on.

All that being said, if Yehoodi decides against featuring blues, balboa, and other dances on its news and calendar pages, I would think it should also set some guidelines to do the same on the discussion boards. Right now policies are inconsistent and ambiguous as to what is and is not in line with Yehoodi's ultimate goals.

I don't know if my argument is coherent at all, but my 2c is this: blues is as much of a part of swing as balboa, etc. When our bands/DJs play slower lindy music, it's almost always blues. How can blues NOT be swing?

However, I understand that there is still a perception that blues dancing is "dirty dancing" and perhaps the powers-that-be are concerned of that label being attached to our site.

I guess if it was called "Slow Lindy" this would be a non-issue ...

Swifty's post hits the nail on the head... thanks for the wonderfully logical and clear post.

Tina 8)

I agree that if you draw the line on blues, you'll have to do it to Balboa, Shag and the like.

As far as the Monday Night Blues Practica group is concerned, these are people who support Fram, Jelly Roll, Swing 46 and other venues, as well as various exchanges. By splitting blues events from news (and possibly the boards) you are splitting up a part of the NY audience, one that supports Yehoodi.

In the past year, you've had some pretty big named Lindy teachers doing more blues workshops. They must have seen enough correlation to move to that genre. Not having a place to post on a National Board about these workshops and events could hurt organizers economically and also stifle what legitimacy blues has been attaining over the past couple of years.

Lastly, Didn't the last Yehoodi video show have some blues tapes on the last show? Doesn't Manu still fantasize over the Grit Grinders ALHC performance from 1999 :-) ? Isn't blues played amongst the mix at Fram by some DJs? I agree that the rules here are ambigious, but cutting Blues events out of news when it's still apparent that Yehoodi is still influenced by that genre doesn't make much sense. I would expect if you're going to cut it out, you'll have to be a lot more stringent in general in policing the site for "fringe" dances.

Quoted from "Keither"
Considering what I've heard about the YxA parties, you'll have a hard time convincing me that the powers-that-be have an issue with "dirty dancing". .

Not from what I witnessed. At least nothing from those weekends were ever promoted as such, unlike other events in past years in other cities. Even the after hours blues parties at Club 412 were very tame in comparison.

And even if they were, the Yehoodi staff has never implied that their events promoted that kind of stuff.

Alligator's such a prude. :roll:

Quoted from "rikomatic"
Drawing lines in the sand is never fun. But we have limits ourselves and our site has to have some sense of what fits and doesn't fit in the circle.

Sure. You guys are going to make whatever decision you do make, and that's your perogative. It's your sandbox.

It just seems awfully sudden.

Quoted from "Memphis Butterfly"
I love both and pursue both equally but my 2 cents: I personally don't see Blues fitting into the genre of swing like I see Bal and Colliegate Shag do.

I would guess that would depend on how you define "swing dances".

Blues music certainly does swing. Lindy hop is often danced to Jump Blues, or what would probably be classified as "Shout Blues". Jazz and Blues music and dancing all emerge from the same roots too. I think it's pretty foggy.

Still you are right, there are definitely other places to go and discuss Blues these days.

However, even though Yehoodi has always said "for the hardcore hep-cat swinger" for as long as I've been on the board, it has remained a melting pot of all the various fads, phases, and dances that Lindy Hoppers have branched out into, whether it's been merely a passing fancy, i.e. Hip Hop Lindy, or a full on dive into a new dance, like Balboa or West Coast Swing.

I would argue that the average "hardcore hep-cat swinger" these days dances more than just Lindy Hop. At the moment, there are nearly as many Lindy Hoppers who dance Blues as there are who dance Bal, so I would think that to support said "hardcore hep-cat swinger" you would want to support all the other dances they might be interested in.

Of course, I like Blues dancing (and Bal and West Coast) as well as Lindy Hop, so I'm certainly biased for keeping the boards open to all.

I would also caution folks not to blow this out of proportion. An email was sent to someone who then took it to the boards. Let's not go crazy.

The fact is that even though a large amount of Blues discussion still happens on Yehoodi, the majorioty of it has moved off onto other boards.

Quoted from "Swifty"
I think the crux of it all is that while "Hip Hop Lindy" was a fad trying to merge two dances/cultures, from what I've seen Blues folks are doing everything they can to say, "It's not slow Lindy Hop."

Well sure, but Balboa isn't "fast Lindy in closed position". I'd bet that if people were to suggest it was, they'd get pretty much the same response from Balboa dancers.

The point of bringing up Hip Hop Lindy was to say that for as long as I've been on the Yehoodi, it's been open to all comers and pretty much all topics that have interested Lindy Hoppers, from the the flash-in-the-pan flirtation that Lindy Hoppers had with Hip hop Lindy, to something more enduring like the ever-expanding interest that Lindy Hoppers have with Balboa, and Blues.

Oh, and just to add one more thing, since Balboa's exact roots are currently somewhat unclear, and could possibly have originated from a dance entirely unrelated to swing, why is nobody questioning the relevance of Bal to Yehoodi? Bal could have been born from the Breakaway or any number of ballroom/latin dances.

Yehoodi is for the swing dance community. It's forums are for whatever people in the community want to talk about, whether it's Frankie Manning, Baseball, Movies, or another Eff thread. Blues is no threat to the swing community's existance, it's simply another interest within the lindy hop community, like balboa. If the community wants blues, let there be blues. I mean it's not like people are complaining about a lack of Westie threads...

I say there's no harm for Yehoodi being a place to advertise blues events.

I'll say it's a head scratcher all right...sort of like when I brought up the idea of "attaching" a Blues Night at the end of Y6A, I was told: "Well, we don't feel that having a Blues Night would be in the spirit of our Count Basie Weekend".

Huh? Last time I checked the Basie band was from Kansas City - with it's music strongly based in blues. Of course I wasn't asking for permission to throw the party, I planned to do it anyway...and as I recall it was received quite nicely. If they were concerned about tarnishing their event, the Blues Night at Y6A did anything but that...it was a wildly sucessful evening.

I have no desire to try to figure what someone connected with this is thinking. As Ogden stated, "It's their sandbox..."

Quoted from "Ogden"

Quoted from "Swifty"
I think the crux of it all is that while "Hip Hop Lindy" was a fad trying to merge two dances/cultures, from what I've seen Blues folks are doing everything they can to say, "It's not slow Lindy Hop."

Well sure, but Balboa isn't "fast Lindy in closed position". I'd bet that if people were to suggest it was, they'd get pretty much the same response from Balboa dancers. The point of bringing up Hip Hop Lindy was to say that for as long as I've been on the Yehoodi, it's been open to all comers and pretty much all topics that have interested Lindy Hoppers, from the the flash-in-the-pan flirtation that Lindy Hoppers had with Hip hop Lindy, to something more enduring like the ever-expanding interest that Lindy Hoppers have with Balboa, and Blues.

I totally agree with you. I'm just pointing out that people are frequently hearing "Blues is not Lindy" and that may be why this discussion has risen in the first place.

Threads I think are a no brainer ... it seems like any dance event can do it ... the issue is news items and Yehoodi TS.

However, I know that my event has appeared before in news (even though I never asked for the promos) and so I'm wondering what the real issue here is because to have a sudden shift in policy is a bit weird.