Please, just stop. For the love of God, Yahweh, the FSM or whatever diety you choose to believe kills kittens when someone does something wrong. Today I came across a video, which I'll talk about later in this post, which really rubbed me the wrong way. It was so blatantly misinformed that…
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "Marcelo" Funny related story: a psychologist went on Fox news and talked about how bad video games are and now the gamers are spamming her Amazon.com book page with one star reviews.
http://kotaku.com/348355/quack-gets-amazon-book-rating-spammed
I don't think intimidating and harassing this woman is funny.
And for the record, she's not a psychologist, and doesn't call herself one. She only has a Masters, although she is working on her doctorate.
http://www.cooperlawrence.com/biography.html
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "snazzyuserid"
Quoted from "Marcelo" Funny related story: a psychologist went on Fox news and talked about how bad video games are and now the gamers are spamming her Amazon.com book page with one star reviews.
http://kotaku.com/348355/quack-gets-amazon-book-rating-spammed
I don't think intimidating and harassing this woman is funny.
And for the record, she's not a psychologist, and doesn't call herself one. She only has a Masters, although she is working on her doctorate.
http://www.cooperlawrence.com/biography.html
She went on TV as an expert to discuss something she had never even seen, had no knowledge or experience with. She then proceeded to state blatantly incorrect information, citing false statistics that would have completely contradicted her argument about said subject had she even bothered to look them up before her TV appearance. These people just hit her in the pocketbook, exactly where she was attacking the game industry. You reap what you sow.
Quote Electronic Arts, likely sick of having their recently-acquired role-playing franchise Mass Effect dragged through the mud on national television, has requested that Fox News Channel correct their error-plagued segment on the game.
In the letter, which cites Kotaku, Jeff Brown, EA's vice president of communications, asks Teri VanHorn, producer of the Live Desk with Martha MacCallum, to clarify "serious errors" the channel made in their Mass Effect story.
"As the parent company of BioWare, the studio which created the game, EA would like you to set the record straight on a number of errors and misstatements which incorrectly characterize the story and character interactions in Mass Effect." The letter starts and then proceeds to outline their very strong case.
Quote Your headline above the televised story read: "New videogame shows full digital nudity and sex." Fact: Mass Effect does not include explicit or frontal nudity. Love scenes in non-interactive sequences include side and profile shots - a vantage frequently used in many prime-time television shows. It's also worth noting that the game requires players to develop complex relationships before characters can become intimate and players can chose to avoid the love scenes altogether.
FNC voice-over reporter says: "You'll see full digital nudity and the ability for players to engage in graphic sex."
Fact: Sex scenes in Mass Effect are not graphic. These scenes are very similar to sex sequences frequently seen on network television in prime time.
FNC reporter says: "Critics say Mass Effect is being marketed to kids and teenagers."
Fact: That is flat out false. Mass Effect and all related marketing has been reviewed by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) and rated Mature - appropriate for players 17-years and older. ESRB routinely counsels retailers on requesting proof of age in selling M-rated titles and the system has been lauded by members of Congress and the Federal Trade Commission. In practical terms, the ratings work as well or better than those used for warning viewers about television content.
The letter goes on to point out that the people who wrapped up the segment with a round table were equally clueless about the game: "They have had zero experience with Mass Effect and are largely ignorant about videogames, the people who play them, and the ESRB system that governs their ratings and sales."
The story wraps up by pointing out how insulting the resulting story was to EA and Bioware and asks, not demands, a correction:
Quote The resulting coverage was insulting to the men and women who spent years creating a game which is acclaimed by critics for its high creative standards. As video games continue to take audiences away from television, we expect to see more TV news stories warning parents about the corrupting influence of interactive entertainment. But this represents a new level of recklessness.
Do you watch the Fox Network? Do you watch Family Guy? Have you ever seen The OC? Do you think the sexual situations in Mass Effect are any more graphic than scenes routinely aired on those shows? Do you honestly believe that young people have more exposure to Mass Effect than to those prime time shows?
This isn't a legal threat; it's an appeal to your sense of fairness. We're asking FNC to correct the record on Mass Effect.
Sincerely,
Jeff Brown
Vice President of Communications
Electronic Arts, Inc.
Attachment: http://kotaku.com/347350/keighley-sets-mass-effect-record-straight-or-tries-to
Good for you EA, it's important, I think that publishers should step up to the plate to defend themselves, especially in light of such outrageous and patently false claims.
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "OpeningMinds"
Quoted from "SwingKid570" There will always be something out there for [bleep!] parents to pin the blame on for why their kids turned out to be such little [bleep!]s. Before video games it was slasher movies and before that it was Dungeons And Dragons and before that it was rock and roll and swing music, etc...
You said it. I doubt the time will ever come when parents say "oh yeah, I/we effed up."
I could not agree more. If your child has a copy of "Grand Theft Auto," you as the parent, are the problem!
Video games do not screw up children.
Movies do not screw up children.
The internet does not screw up children.
Other children do not screw up children.
School does not screw up children.
Parents screw up children!
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Maybe I was too young to remember, but was there any outcry against early video games? Like Pac-Man: receive the right powerup, then you chase down your enemies and eat them alive. Or Galaga: shoot and kill dozens of alien creatures who can barely fight back. Or Joust: attacking enemies (I think they were knights) by stabbing them with a lance.
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "equivoque"
Quoted from "OpeningMinds"
Quoted from "SwingKid570" There will always be something out there for [bleep!] parents to pin the blame on for why their kids turned out to be such little [bleep!]s. Before video games it was slasher movies and before that it was Dungeons And Dragons and before that it was rock and roll and swing music, etc...
You said it. I doubt the time will ever come when parents say "oh yeah, I/we effed up."
I could not agree more.
I couldn't agree less. Parents say that (or something of that nature of meaning) every freakin day. Most parents I know readily admit to making mistakes, and many, many, when they see anything disturbing about the behavior of their children, will rack their brains trying to figure out what they did wrong, and what they should change. Some live large parts of their lives suffering with terrible guilt about how they screwed up in raising their children, even when those children are mostly okay (no more screwed up than average.)
There will always be a section of the population that will blame others for their mistakes, but parents don't make up any special large portion of that population. Most parents DO take responsibility.
However, people who make a stink about things that disturb them in the media, and worry about how it might effect children, help responsible parents to get the information they need to make responsible decisions regarding what they encourage and allow their children to do.
The rating system is a good tool for parents, and it's especially helpful if the people selling those games refuse to sell games with certain ratings to children. But that isn't something the game manufactureres offered out of the goodness of their hearts. They did it in response to criticism of the effects those games could have on children.
And yes, there are some children who are susceptible to getting sucked into spending too much of themselves on the games (even if they're not violent), and their school performance and social life suffers. I know this from personal experience. Those children may be a minority, but parents do need to know it's something to watch out for, and that they may need to monitor and restrict their children's game playing if they see it happening. Because the cause of changes in children's behavior is not always obvious, and it helps to have some study out there to tell you hey, restricting or eliminating T.V/computer/gaming time for your child is something to try and see if it helps.
The reason this kind of knowledge is readily available is because there are some people willing to make a loud noise about their concerns, and others are willing to do the studies and find out if there are any real issues.
No parents are perfect. We have a zillion decisions to make about our children every day, and we won't get them all right. We need as much help in making those decisions as we can get.
Quote
Silver Springs, Md. (Army News Service, January 17, 2008) -- A longtime player of the game "America's Army" became a first responder following a car accident in November when he employed the life-saving techniques he learned by playing the video game.
Paxton Galvanek was driving westbound on I-40 in North Carolina with his family. About 25 miles south of Raleigh, he witnessed a sports utility vehicle in the eastbound lanes flip about five times. While his wife called 911, Galvanek stopped his vehicle and ran across the highway to the scene of the accident.
Assuming the role of first responder, Galvanek quickly assessed the situation and found two victims in the smoking vehicle. Needing to extract them quickly, he first helped the passenger out of the truck. The passenger had minor cuts and injuries. Galvanek told the man to stay clear of the car and then went quickly to the driver's side. He pulled the driver to safety on the side of the road.
Using knowledge he learned from playing "America's Army," Galvanek knew he had to prioritize the situation, choosing which of the wounded travelers would need to be tended to immediately.
"I remember vividly in section four of the game's medic training, during the field medic scenarios, I had to evaluate the situation and place priority on the more critically wounded," Galvanek said. "In the case of this accident, I evaluated the situation and placed priority on the driver of the car, who had missing fingers."
Quote A 12-year-old Norwegian boy reportedly defended himself and his little sister from a moose attack by employing techniques he learned while attaining level 30 in World of Warcraft:
In the article he describes how he first yelled at the moose, distracting it so his sister got away, then when he got attacked and the animal stood over him he feigned death. "Just like you learn at level 30 in World of Warcraft."
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
You know DJ, if you're going to bring the Norwegian kid into this, you have to bring in the lunatic Chinese kid who turns into a real life Fire Mage.
Quote After losing a schoolyard fight, a 17-year-old boy in Beijing recently covered a classmate with gasoline and lit him on fire, claiming he "had lost himself in World of Warcraft and when he committed the crime he had transformed into a Fire Mage."
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "oopsmybad" You know DJ, if you're going to bring the Norwegian kid into this, you have to bring in the lunatic Chinese kid who turns into a real life Fire Mage.
Quote After losing a schoolyard fight, a 17-year-old boy in Beijing recently covered a classmate with gasoline and lit him on fire, claiming he "had lost himself in World of Warcraft and when he committed the crime he had transformed into a Fire Mage."
Sounds like a real life story about the importance of good micro. If he'd been a little faster, he could have summoned water elementals to put out the flames.
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "r_c_s"
Quoted from "equivoque"
Quoted from "OpeningMinds"
Quoted from "SwingKid570" There will always be something out there for [bleep!] parents to pin the blame on for why their kids turned out to be such little [bleep!]s. Before video games it was slasher movies and before that it was Dungeons And Dragons and before that it was rock and roll and swing music, etc...
You said it. I doubt the time will ever come when parents say "oh yeah, I/we effed up."
I could not agree more.
I couldn't agree less. Parents say that (or something of that nature of meaning) every freakin day. Most parents I know readily admit to making mistakes, and many, many, when they see anything disturbing about the behavior of their children, will rack their brains trying to figure out what they did wrong, and what they should change. Some live large parts of their lives suffering with terrible guilt about how they screwed up in raising their children, even when those children are mostly okay (no more screwed up than average.)
There will always be a section of the population that will blame others for their mistakes, but parents don't make up any special large portion of that population. Most parents DO take responsibility.
However, people who make a stink about things that disturb them in the media, and worry about how it might effect children, help responsible parents to get the information they need to make responsible decisions regarding what they encourage and allow their children to do.
The rating system is a good tool for parents, and it's especially helpful if the people selling those games refuse to sell games with certain ratings to children. But that isn't something the game manufactureres offered out of the goodness of their hearts. They did it in response to criticism of the effects those games could have on children.
And yes, there are some children who are susceptible to getting sucked into spending too much of themselves on the games (even if they're not violent), and their school performance and social life suffers. I know this from personal experience. Those children may be a minority, but parents do need to know it's something to watch out for, and that they may need to monitor and restrict their children's game playing if they see it happening. Because the cause of changes in children's behavior is not always obvious, and it helps to have some study out there to tell you hey, restricting or eliminating T.V/computer/gaming time for your child is something to try and see if it helps.
The reason this kind of knowledge is readily available is because there are some people willing to make a loud noise about their concerns, and others are willing to do the studies and find out if there are any real issues.
No parents are perfect. We have a zillion decisions to make about our children every day, and we won't get them all right. We need as much help in making those decisions as we can get.
What you say is completely true of good parents. Good parents teach their children good values. Rarely do you see a hellion come from a well adjusted family where the parents take responsibility for the actions of their children.
However, I've witnessed plenty of bad parents in my life, and been on the receiving end of their misplaced anger, blaming anyone but themselves when their child does something wrong. I saw this watching my peers in school, and in my years working as a Lifeguard, YMCA camp counselor, and now designing video games. Parents who spoil or ignore their children, never police them or punish them for their actions. These kids grow up with no concept of what right or wrong is, because their parents simply don't pass these rules on to them.
I've seen kids spit on and yell at teachers for giving bad grades or punishment to them, only to have the parents come in and yell at and threaten the teacher. I've been yelled at for enforcing the rules of my pool or camp by revoking privileges from a child who blatantly defied my authority. I've even seen children swear at and hit their parents when they weren't given whatever it was that they wanted at the time. EVERY time, the parent shifts the blame of their child's actions on to another source, usually the authority figure responsible for caring for a child in their absence.
Granted, its not all kids, but they're out there. They're the ones we're paying attention to, and the ones we're discussing here. A good parent doesn't worry that video games are mutating their child in to a killing monster, because they have a solid grasp on that child's life and actions. If they felt something was hurting their child, they'd remove it from their life, and rightfully so.
The people who make a stink in the media are NOT helping responsible parents. Spreading incorrect information, hyperbole, and outright lies cloud the issues. Hanging the gaming industry on a cross is not a helpful or viable solution. Its a binary approach to an issue that has an entire spectrum of grays. There are sites out there that take an approach that is less Machiavellian, by showing parents how to learn and understand the content, as well as pointing out both the good and bad available out there.
Take note that the ESRB rating system was created by the gaming industry, for the express purpose of preventing issues like this from happening. It is a self regulatory system imposed during the era of 16 bit graphical games like Mortal Kombat, in response to Congress' concerns about content. Don't confuse the fact that we were asked by Congress with the fact that we do not freely welcome and embrace the system. In fact, over the years, we've greatly improved the way and detail with which games are rated, increased visibility of the rating and rallied for stricter enforcement of the rating's age limitations. A rating system has allowed us much stricter regulation and control of the content of games, something the industry as a whole never had before.
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "oopsmybad" You know DJ, if you're going to bring the Norwegian kid into this, you have to bring in the lunatic Chinese kid who turns into a real life Fire Mage.
Quote After losing a schoolyard fight, a 17-year-old boy in Beijing recently covered a classmate with gasoline and lit him on fire, claiming he "had lost himself in World of Warcraft and when he committed the crime he had transformed into a Fire Mage."
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
(I'm not blaming video games.)
But, good parents can have bad kids. As a criminal defense attorney, I've met more than a few (bad kids with good parents). So, while we're not blaming video games, we really shouldn't blanket blame parents either.
Originally posted Thursday, January 24, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "RubyMae" (I'm not blaming video games.)
But, good parents can have bad kids. As a criminal defense attorney, I've met more than a few (bad kids with good parents). So, while we're not blaming video games, we really shouldn't blanket blame parents either.
True, and bad parents can have good kids. But, its WAAAAAAAAAY more likely that good parents will have good kids, and bad parents will have bad kids, so being a good parent is still important.
Quote In a single line text message sent from her Blackberry, Teri VanHorn, producer of Fox News' Live Desk with Martha MacCallum, blew off Electronic Arts' detailed call for correction over the error strewn report the show did on Mass Effect earlier in the week.
Jeff Brown, Electronic Arts' vice president of communication, told Kotaku that the producer told him to contact Fox News' public relations department, which apparently now deals with factual errors in their stories.
Brown told me he wasn't surprised, but that EA will continue to "step up when someone maligns our creative teams.
"They need to understand there are 100 people in Edmonton, Alberta who dedicated years to making that game. They've got names, faces and reputations - and they've been slandered. We're angry about that."
He added that yesterday's reaction was not a one off, "it's a policy directive from Riccitiello. Anyone who tells lies about our creative teams is going to get a fight."
Originally posted Friday, January 25, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "DJLarkin" http://kotaku.com/348692/ea-fighting-mad-about-fox-news-but-still-no-correction
Quote In a single line text message sent from her Blackberry, Teri VanHorn, producer of Fox News' Live Desk with Martha MacCallum, blew off Electronic Arts' detailed call for correction over the error strewn report the show did on Mass Effect earlier in the week.
Jeff Brown, Electronic Arts' vice president of communication, told Kotaku that the producer told him to contact Fox News' public relations department, which apparently now deals with factual errors in their stories.
Brown told me he wasn't surprised, but that EA will continue to "step up when someone maligns our creative teams.
"They need to understand there are 100 people in Edmonton, Alberta who dedicated years to making that game. They've got names, faces and reputations - and they've been slandered. We're angry about that."
He added that yesterday's reaction was not a one off, "it's a policy directive from Riccitiello. Anyone who tells lies about our creative teams is going to get a fight."
Well, it is FAUX News. I hope they do intend to sue.
The velocity of Spanish is that many tables do not have sadness...
Originally posted Friday, January 25, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "zeno" Parents are probably under full control until children are about age 8.
LoL. Full control :roll:
Quoted from "DJLarkin" Hanging the gaming industry on a cross is not a helpful or viable solution.
No it's not, and the people who think it is are fringe. They can't actually destroy the gaming industry (it seems to be pretty darn healthy) -- they can only make noise. And I do believe that noise-making fringe lunatics have value. The noise gets heard, and more reasonable people wake up and say "That's a little extreme, but maybe there are some concerns we should look at."
Without the nuts at the extremes, the views that we now think are moderate would be the extreme ones, and no one would listen to them. With them, you get congress worrying about whether there are issues to looked at, and you get gaming industries realizing that rating systems & making info available to parents is a good idea.
Quoted from "DJLarkin" They're the ones we're paying attention to
Interesting... we pay the kids who act badly with our attention. Maybe that's part of the problem? (I don't know, just a passing thought.)
Quoted from "DJLarkin" never police them or punish them for their actions
You can't know that (unless you actually live with these parents & children in their homes.) I think you mean they apparently do an inadequate job at it. In reality, I think it's almost never as simple as you make it out. (e.g. I know some people who I think were pretty poor parents -- to the point where their oldest was diagnosed with ADD & put on ritalin, but I honestly believe good parenting would have made that unnecessary. However, these people did in fact punish their children and attempt to police them -- they just did a poor & inconsistent job of it, mainly out of ignorance. They tried to teach their children, and were quite stressed and worn out from the efforts, but they didn't do it well. Because they did their honest best and tried hard, though, they did tend to blame others when there were problems, for a few years anyway.)
Parents who can be very hard on their children at home may still stand up for them in public. Parents who are on the defensive when called in unexpectedly to deal with problems and can see that they're receiving implied if not outright criticism from the others who take care of their children may still be worrying about their own actions when they have time to go home and think things over.
Quoted from "DJLarkin" A good parent doesn't worry that video games are mutating their child in to a killing monster, because they have a solid grasp on that child's life and actions.
If you think anyone really has a solid grasp on another human's life and actions, you've got a lot to learn about people, children, and parenting. (That's not so much of a criticism -- I think we all have a lot to learn. It's a huge subject.)
Good parents absolutely do worry -- if they have the information to know it's something to worry about. Because they worry, they pay attention and monitor the situation, and maybe restrict time or take things away if an activity is a problem. Bad parents don't pay enough attention to worry until after there's an obvious problem hitting them over the head.
Either way, it's hard to realize that something your child really likes, and which seems to keep him quiet and out of trouble for relatively long periods of time (say more than 10 minutes at a stretch), could be something that's causing him problems. That's a tough investigation to make, and it may take a long time, even with good parenting, to figure it out, especially if there's no outside information to point to it.
I think I'm a pretty good parent (and my kids' teachers treat me like they think I am), and I worry every day about my son's behavior and I truly don't know most of the time what's right for him, which decisions I'm screwing up. I've always felt confident about my daughters being good kids, but this one scares me sometimes, and one thing I can tell you is that no matter how much attention I pay, and how much thought and research I put into it, there is no way for me to be sure that the decisions I'm making are the right ones. I worry that some of the stuff I allow will turn out to be harmful. But I worry that overprotecting will be more harmful. Some kids are just difficult, and they're the ones who need good parenting the most, and it's the good parents who worry about how things will affect them.
Quote Don't confuse the fact that we were asked by Congress with the fact that we do not freely welcome and embrace the system.
I don't. I believe it's good for P.R. and good for business. Plus, I fully believe that there are ethical people involved in making those sorts of decisions. Further, I've seen evidence that game companies are listening to the concerns of parents, and acting on them, to the point that I've brought an actual gaming system into my home for the first time this year, because I've seen where some of these new games have advantages that you can't get from the games you play from your computer.
Originally posted Wednesday, January 30, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "r_c_s"
Quoted from "DJLarkin" Hanging the gaming industry on a cross is not a helpful or viable solution.
No it's not, and the people who think it is are fringe. They can't actually destroy the gaming industry (it seems to be pretty darn healthy) -- they can only make noise. And I do believe that noise-making fringe lunatics have value. The noise gets heard, and more reasonable people wake up and say "That's a little extreme, but maybe there are some concerns we should look at."
Quote Recent word that the Entertainment Software Association would begin making political contributions on behalf of the video game industry brought a sharp response from watchdog group the Parents Television Council.
Within days of the ESA announcement, PTC president Tim Winter issued a statement essentially threatening that his organization would target any elected official who cashed a check from the ESA
Quote Prime Minister Gordon Brown is concerned about the level of knife violence in some of England s most crime-ridden cities.
And he s assigning some of the blame to video games.
Not to mention the recent trend of targetting the video game industry in New Mexico and UK laws, saying they cause obesity. The list goes on and on and on and on. If you think this can't do damage to the industry, you're very wrong.
Quoted from "r_c_s" Without the nuts at the extremes, the views that we now think are moderate would be the extreme ones, and no one would listen to them. With them, you get congress worrying about whether there are issues to looked at, and you get gaming industries realizing that rating systems & making info available to parents is a good idea.
I know what you're trying to say here, I just completely disagree. Polarizing nutjobs are everything thats wrong with this country. The Ann Coulter, Jack Thompson and Rush Limbaughs of the world just make things more complicated for everyone by making it hard to trust what a legitimate issue is. Without this kind of attitude, we could focus on actual problems instead of throwing legal weight around, and going for each other's jugular. If every issue wasn't blown out of proportion, we'd be able to trust what people say.
Quoted from "DJLarkin" They're the ones we're paying attention to
Interesting... we pay the kids who act badly with our attention. Maybe that's part of the problem? (I don't know, just a passing thought.)
Well, I was referring to the fact that particular thread of conversation was discussing bad kids, not good ones.
Quoted from "r_c_s"
Quoted from "DJLarkin" never police them or punish them for their actions
You can't know that (unless you actually live with these parents & children in their homes.) I think you mean they apparently do an inadequate job at it. In reality, I think it's almost never as simple as you make it out. (e.g. I know some people who I think were pretty poor parents -- to the point where their oldest was diagnosed with ADD & put on ritalin, but I honestly believe good parenting would have made that unnecessary. However, these people did in fact punish their children and attempt to police them -- they just did a poor & inconsistent job of it, mainly out of ignorance. They tried to teach their children, and were quite stressed and worn out from the efforts, but they didn't do it well. Because they did their honest best and tried hard, though, they did tend to blame others when there were problems, for a few years anyway.)
You're arguing semantics here. If a kid is hitting their parent in public, or spitting on their teacher at school, the "punishment" they're given at home is obviously inadequate to deter them from such behavior. Whether they actually try to punish their kids is irrelevant if its not effective at what punishment is designed to do, deter them from bad behavior. Thats why I say that these people don't punish their kids, the kids don't fear the consequences of their actions.
Quoted from "r_c_s" Parents who can be very hard on their children at home may still stand up for them in public. Parents who are on the defensive when called in unexpectedly to deal with problems and can see that they're receiving implied if not outright criticism from the others who take care of their children may still be worrying about their own actions when they have time to go home and think things over.
Unfortunately this happens all too often. Parents will defend a child's actions even when they were in the wrong. A good parent has a hard time grasping this concept, but I've seen parents defend the actions of their children when they had absolutely no right or reason to do so.
Quoted from "r_c_s"
Quoted from "DJLarkin" A good parent doesn't worry that video games are mutating their child in to a killing monster, because they have a solid grasp on that child's life and actions.
If you think anyone really has a solid grasp on another human's life and actions, you've got a lot to learn about people, children, and parenting. (That's not so much of a criticism -- I think we all have a lot to learn. It's a huge subject.)
Good parents absolutely do worry -- if they have the information to know it's something to worry about. Because they worry, they pay attention and monitor the situation, and maybe restrict time or take things away if an activity is a problem. Bad parents don't pay enough attention to worry until after there's an obvious problem hitting them over the head.
Either way, it's hard to realize that something your child really likes, and which seems to keep him quiet and out of trouble for relatively long periods of time (say more than 10 minutes at a stretch), could be something that's causing him problems. That's a tough investigation to make, and it may take a long time, even with good parenting, to figure it out, especially if there's no outside information to point to it.
I think I'm a pretty good parent (and my kids' teachers treat me like they think I am), and I worry every day about my son's behavior and I truly don't know most of the time what's right for him, which decisions I'm screwing up. I've always felt confident about my daughters being good kids, but this one scares me sometimes, and one thing I can tell you is that no matter how much attention I pay, and how much thought and research I put into it, there is no way for me to be sure that the decisions I'm making are the right ones. I worry that some of the stuff I allow will turn out to be harmful. But I worry that overprotecting will be more harmful. Some kids are just difficult, and they're the ones who need good parenting the most, and it's the good parents who worry about how things will affect them.
I think you're taking what I say in far too literal a sense. I'd describe what you do for your kids as a solid grasp on their lives. I'm not at all saying good parents don't EVER worry. Good parents DO worry, which is why they make a concerted effort to pay attention to what is going on in their children's lives. A good parent will notice that their 4.0 student's GPA suddenly dropped 2 points, and they're getting suspended for fighting at school. They're also the people who monitor what their kids do, know who their kid's friends, teachers and after school activities are. They're the parents who check the ratings on the video games they buy, and realize that their 12 year old shouldn't be playing a game thats marked "ADULTS ONLY", or watching movies rated R.
These aren't the people I'm talking about. The people I'm talking about are the parents who don't monitor what their child does, who will purchase R rated movies and AO games for their 12 year old, and then complain that these things are corrupting and turning their child in to a murdering mutant killer. Good parents don't do these things, because they have a better grasp on reality than that.
Quote In an interview on Friday, Ms. Lawrence said that since the controversy over her remarks erupted she had watched someone play the game for about two and a half hours. I recognize that I misspoke, she said. I really regret saying that, and now that I ve seen the game and seen the sex scenes it s kind of a joke.
Before the show I had asked somebody about what they had heard, and they had said it s like pornography, she added. But it s not like pornography. I ve seen episodes of Lost that are more sexually explicit.
So, essentially, Fox News coached her on what to say. Really, its her own fault for appearing without any actual knowledge of the subject she was speaking on, but at least she's realizing that she was wrong... I guess.
Quote Your headline above the televised story read: "New videogame shows full digital nudity and sex." Fact: Mass Effect does not include explicit or frontal nudity. Love scenes in non-interactive sequences include side and profile shots - a vantage frequently used in many prime-time television shows. It's also worth noting that the game requires players to develop complex relationships before characters can become intimate and players can chose to avoid the love scenes altogether.
FNC voice-over reporter says: "You'll see full digital nudity and the ability for players to engage in graphic sex."
Fact: Sex scenes in Mass Effect are not graphic. These scenes are very similar to sex sequences frequently seen on network television in prime time.
FNC reporter says: "Critics say Mass Effect is being marketed to kids and teenagers."
Fact: That is flat out false. Mass Effect and all related marketing has been reviewed by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) and rated Mature - appropriate for players 17-years and older. ESRB routinely counsels retailers on requesting proof of age in selling M-rated titles and the system has been lauded by members of Congress and the Federal Trade Commission. In practical terms, the ratings work as well or better than those used for warning viewers about television content.
Quote The resulting coverage was insulting to the men and women who spent years creating a game which is acclaimed by critics for its high creative standards. As video games continue to take audiences away from television, we expect to see more TV news stories warning parents about the corrupting influence of interactive entertainment. But this represents a new level of recklessness.
Do you watch the Fox Network? Do you watch Family Guy? Have you ever seen The OC? Do you think the sexual situations in Mass Effect are any more graphic than scenes routinely aired on those shows? Do you honestly believe that young people have more exposure to Mass Effect than to those prime time shows?
This isn't a legal threat; it's an appeal to your sense of fairness. We're asking FNC to correct the record on Mass Effect.
Sincerely,
Jeff Brown
Vice President of Communications
Electronic Arts, Inc.
Originally posted Thursday, January 31, 2008 (4 years ago)
Quoted from "Random" I was entertained by this rebuttal to some rather tenuous claims about the affect of video games on the average 20 something year old male.
Another good example of what I've been talking about. People are getting married later than they used to, OBVIOUSLY the fault of video games causing a state of perpetual adolescence in young men.
Ugh. I can't express the depths of my disgust at that op-ed. On the other hand, the linked article brings up some really good points. The one that I think is very understated, though, is the correlation that later marrying ages have with increased divorce rates and single parent households over the years. It seems entirely logical that a generation growing up seeing the hardships of single parents, as well as watching their parents/friend's parents marriages fall apart would not dive headfirst in to the institution of getting married and making babies before they're ready for it.
Stop blaming video games for bad parenting
Please, just stop. For the love of God, Yahweh, the FSM or whatever diety you choose to believe kills kittens when someone does something wrong. Today I came across a video, which I'll talk about later in this post, which really rubbed me the wrong way. It was so blatantly misinformed that…
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I don't play video games.
"Chaw, chi-chaw, chi-chaw." - Lindsay Bluth
I don't think intimidating and harassing this woman is funny.
And for the record, she's not a psychologist, and doesn't call herself one. She only has a Masters, although she is working on her doctorate. http://www.cooperlawrence.com/biography.html
Isn't that more of a testimonial on why you SHOULD play games?
She went on TV as an expert to discuss something she had never even seen, had no knowledge or experience with. She then proceeded to state blatantly incorrect information, citing false statistics that would have completely contradicted her argument about said subject had she even bothered to look them up before her TV appearance. These people just hit her in the pocketbook, exactly where she was attacking the game industry. You reap what you sow.
Oh, also: http://kotaku.com/348187/ea-calls-fox-out-on-insulting-mass-effect-inaccuracies
I could not agree more. If your child has a copy of "Grand Theft Auto," you as the parent, are the problem!
Video games do not screw up children. Movies do not screw up children. The internet does not screw up children. Other children do not screw up children. School does not screw up children. Parents screw up children!
Blaming video games is as silly as blaming more liberal concealed carry laws.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Maybe I was too young to remember, but was there any outcry against early video games? Like Pac-Man: receive the right powerup, then you chase down your enemies and eat them alive. Or Galaga: shoot and kill dozens of alien creatures who can barely fight back. Or Joust: attacking enemies (I think they were knights) by stabbing them with a lance.
Apparently it happened as early as 1976.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Race
- James
ROFL! That site pwns!
- James
I couldn't agree less. Parents say that (or something of that nature of meaning) every freakin day. Most parents I know readily admit to making mistakes, and many, many, when they see anything disturbing about the behavior of their children, will rack their brains trying to figure out what they did wrong, and what they should change. Some live large parts of their lives suffering with terrible guilt about how they screwed up in raising their children, even when those children are mostly okay (no more screwed up than average.)
There will always be a section of the population that will blame others for their mistakes, but parents don't make up any special large portion of that population. Most parents DO take responsibility.
However, people who make a stink about things that disturb them in the media, and worry about how it might effect children, help responsible parents to get the information they need to make responsible decisions regarding what they encourage and allow their children to do.
The rating system is a good tool for parents, and it's especially helpful if the people selling those games refuse to sell games with certain ratings to children. But that isn't something the game manufactureres offered out of the goodness of their hearts. They did it in response to criticism of the effects those games could have on children.
And yes, there are some children who are susceptible to getting sucked into spending too much of themselves on the games (even if they're not violent), and their school performance and social life suffers. I know this from personal experience. Those children may be a minority, but parents do need to know it's something to watch out for, and that they may need to monitor and restrict their children's game playing if they see it happening. Because the cause of changes in children's behavior is not always obvious, and it helps to have some study out there to tell you hey, restricting or eliminating T.V/computer/gaming time for your child is something to try and see if it helps.
The reason this kind of knowledge is readily available is because there are some people willing to make a loud noise about their concerns, and others are willing to do the studies and find out if there are any real issues.
No parents are perfect. We have a zillion decisions to make about our children every day, and we won't get them all right. We need as much help in making those decisions as we can get.
-- Rachel
Video game saves a life.
Hard to argue with that.
arthur
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/06/swedish-boy-outthink.html
You know DJ, if you're going to bring the Norwegian kid into this, you have to bring in the lunatic Chinese kid who turns into a real life Fire Mage.
Sounds like a real life story about the importance of good micro. If he'd been a little faster, he could have summoned water elementals to put out the flames.
- James
What you say is completely true of good parents. Good parents teach their children good values. Rarely do you see a hellion come from a well adjusted family where the parents take responsibility for the actions of their children.
However, I've witnessed plenty of bad parents in my life, and been on the receiving end of their misplaced anger, blaming anyone but themselves when their child does something wrong. I saw this watching my peers in school, and in my years working as a Lifeguard, YMCA camp counselor, and now designing video games. Parents who spoil or ignore their children, never police them or punish them for their actions. These kids grow up with no concept of what right or wrong is, because their parents simply don't pass these rules on to them.
I've seen kids spit on and yell at teachers for giving bad grades or punishment to them, only to have the parents come in and yell at and threaten the teacher. I've been yelled at for enforcing the rules of my pool or camp by revoking privileges from a child who blatantly defied my authority. I've even seen children swear at and hit their parents when they weren't given whatever it was that they wanted at the time. EVERY time, the parent shifts the blame of their child's actions on to another source, usually the authority figure responsible for caring for a child in their absence.
Granted, its not all kids, but they're out there. They're the ones we're paying attention to, and the ones we're discussing here. A good parent doesn't worry that video games are mutating their child in to a killing monster, because they have a solid grasp on that child's life and actions. If they felt something was hurting their child, they'd remove it from their life, and rightfully so.
The people who make a stink in the media are NOT helping responsible parents. Spreading incorrect information, hyperbole, and outright lies cloud the issues. Hanging the gaming industry on a cross is not a helpful or viable solution. Its a binary approach to an issue that has an entire spectrum of grays. There are sites out there that take an approach that is less Machiavellian, by showing parents how to learn and understand the content, as well as pointing out both the good and bad available out there.
Take note that the ESRB rating system was created by the gaming industry, for the express purpose of preventing issues like this from happening. It is a self regulatory system imposed during the era of 16 bit graphical games like Mortal Kombat, in response to Congress' concerns about content. Don't confuse the fact that we were asked by Congress with the fact that we do not freely welcome and embrace the system. In fact, over the years, we've greatly improved the way and detail with which games are rated, increased visibility of the rating and rallied for stricter enforcement of the rating's age limitations. A rating system has allowed us much stricter regulation and control of the content of games, something the industry as a whole never had before.
Obviously, its the fault of communism.
(I'm not blaming video games.)
But, good parents can have bad kids. As a criminal defense attorney, I've met more than a few (bad kids with good parents). So, while we're not blaming video games, we really shouldn't blanket blame parents either.
Holy crap, RM, I agree with you. And in a post about parenting, no less. :-P
True, and bad parents can have good kids. But, its WAAAAAAAAAY more likely that good parents will have good kids, and bad parents will have bad kids, so being a good parent is still important.
http://kotaku.com/348692/ea-fighting-mad-about-fox-news-but-still-no-correction
Parents are probably under full control until children are about age 8.
That's around the age in a child's psychological development where the influence of their peers grow. So I agree, not all is bad parenting.
The only game I've ever liked is Counter-Strike.
Well, it is FAUX News. I hope they do intend to sue.
The velocity of Spanish is that many tables do not have sadness...
LoL. Full control :roll:
No it's not, and the people who think it is are fringe. They can't actually destroy the gaming industry (it seems to be pretty darn healthy) -- they can only make noise. And I do believe that noise-making fringe lunatics have value. The noise gets heard, and more reasonable people wake up and say "That's a little extreme, but maybe there are some concerns we should look at."
Without the nuts at the extremes, the views that we now think are moderate would be the extreme ones, and no one would listen to them. With them, you get congress worrying about whether there are issues to looked at, and you get gaming industries realizing that rating systems & making info available to parents is a good idea.
Interesting... we pay the kids who act badly with our attention. Maybe that's part of the problem? (I don't know, just a passing thought.)
You can't know that (unless you actually live with these parents & children in their homes.) I think you mean they apparently do an inadequate job at it. In reality, I think it's almost never as simple as you make it out. (e.g. I know some people who I think were pretty poor parents -- to the point where their oldest was diagnosed with ADD & put on ritalin, but I honestly believe good parenting would have made that unnecessary. However, these people did in fact punish their children and attempt to police them -- they just did a poor & inconsistent job of it, mainly out of ignorance. They tried to teach their children, and were quite stressed and worn out from the efforts, but they didn't do it well. Because they did their honest best and tried hard, though, they did tend to blame others when there were problems, for a few years anyway.)
Parents who can be very hard on their children at home may still stand up for them in public. Parents who are on the defensive when called in unexpectedly to deal with problems and can see that they're receiving implied if not outright criticism from the others who take care of their children may still be worrying about their own actions when they have time to go home and think things over.
If you think anyone really has a solid grasp on another human's life and actions, you've got a lot to learn about people, children, and parenting. (That's not so much of a criticism -- I think we all have a lot to learn. It's a huge subject.)
Good parents absolutely do worry -- if they have the information to know it's something to worry about. Because they worry, they pay attention and monitor the situation, and maybe restrict time or take things away if an activity is a problem. Bad parents don't pay enough attention to worry until after there's an obvious problem hitting them over the head.
Either way, it's hard to realize that something your child really likes, and which seems to keep him quiet and out of trouble for relatively long periods of time (say more than 10 minutes at a stretch), could be something that's causing him problems. That's a tough investigation to make, and it may take a long time, even with good parenting, to figure it out, especially if there's no outside information to point to it.
I think I'm a pretty good parent (and my kids' teachers treat me like they think I am), and I worry every day about my son's behavior and I truly don't know most of the time what's right for him, which decisions I'm screwing up. I've always felt confident about my daughters being good kids, but this one scares me sometimes, and one thing I can tell you is that no matter how much attention I pay, and how much thought and research I put into it, there is no way for me to be sure that the decisions I'm making are the right ones. I worry that some of the stuff I allow will turn out to be harmful. But I worry that overprotecting will be more harmful. Some kids are just difficult, and they're the ones who need good parenting the most, and it's the good parents who worry about how things will affect them.
I don't. I believe it's good for P.R. and good for business. Plus, I fully believe that there are ethical people involved in making those sorts of decisions. Further, I've seen evidence that game companies are listening to the concerns of parents, and acting on them, to the point that I've brought an actual gaming system into my home for the first time this year, because I've seen where some of these new games have advantages that you can't get from the games you play from your computer.
-- Rachel
If only that were true.
GTA, Rap Blamed for Gang Problem in Maryland County
Parents Television Council Wants Video Game Legislation
In Battle Against Knife Violence, British PM Takes a Stab at Video Games
Not to mention the recent trend of targetting the video game industry in New Mexico and UK laws, saying they cause obesity. The list goes on and on and on and on. If you think this can't do damage to the industry, you're very wrong.
I know what you're trying to say here, I just completely disagree. Polarizing nutjobs are everything thats wrong with this country. The Ann Coulter, Jack Thompson and Rush Limbaughs of the world just make things more complicated for everyone by making it hard to trust what a legitimate issue is. Without this kind of attitude, we could focus on actual problems instead of throwing legal weight around, and going for each other's jugular. If every issue wasn't blown out of proportion, we'd be able to trust what people say.
John Stewart sums up my feelings on the issue pretty well.
Well, I was referring to the fact that particular thread of conversation was discussing bad kids, not good ones.
You're arguing semantics here. If a kid is hitting their parent in public, or spitting on their teacher at school, the "punishment" they're given at home is obviously inadequate to deter them from such behavior. Whether they actually try to punish their kids is irrelevant if its not effective at what punishment is designed to do, deter them from bad behavior. Thats why I say that these people don't punish their kids, the kids don't fear the consequences of their actions.
Unfortunately this happens all too often. Parents will defend a child's actions even when they were in the wrong. A good parent has a hard time grasping this concept, but I've seen parents defend the actions of their children when they had absolutely no right or reason to do so.
I think you're taking what I say in far too literal a sense. I'd describe what you do for your kids as a solid grasp on their lives. I'm not at all saying good parents don't EVER worry. Good parents DO worry, which is why they make a concerted effort to pay attention to what is going on in their children's lives. A good parent will notice that their 4.0 student's GPA suddenly dropped 2 points, and they're getting suspended for fighting at school. They're also the people who monitor what their kids do, know who their kid's friends, teachers and after school activities are. They're the parents who check the ratings on the video games they buy, and realize that their 12 year old shouldn't be playing a game thats marked "ADULTS ONLY", or watching movies rated R.
These aren't the people I'm talking about. The people I'm talking about are the parents who don't monitor what their child does, who will purchase R rated movies and AO games for their 12 year old, and then complain that these things are corrupting and turning their child in to a murdering mutant killer. Good parents don't do these things, because they have a better grasp on reality than that.
Back on topic:
EA vs Fox: Adam Sessler Weighs in
Cooper Lawrence, the "Expert" from the Fox News clip about Mass Effect apologizes.
Via the New York Times:
So, essentially, Fox News coached her on what to say. Really, its her own fault for appearing without any actual knowledge of the subject she was speaking on, but at least she's realizing that she was wrong... I guess.
EA Calls Fox Out on "Insulting" Mass Effect Inaccuracies
I was entertained by this rebuttal to some rather tenuous claims about the affect of video games on the average 20 something year old male.
Another good example of what I've been talking about. People are getting married later than they used to, OBVIOUSLY the fault of video games causing a state of perpetual adolescence in young men.
Ugh. I can't express the depths of my disgust at that op-ed. On the other hand, the linked article brings up some really good points. The one that I think is very understated, though, is the correlation that later marrying ages have with increased divorce rates and single parent households over the years. It seems entirely logical that a generation growing up seeing the hardships of single parents, as well as watching their parents/friend's parents marriages fall apart would not dive headfirst in to the institution of getting married and making babies before they're ready for it.
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