It's an interesting (and potentially scary) trend in America to see men (and women) hanging onto their childhood in their 20s and 30s. As a quick reference, see Failure to Launch (actually, don't, it's a terrible movie). There are a lot of factors at work; society encourages dating around, colleges let students act like children until age 22, parents have become more lenient about letting adult children live at home, etc. If we are going to look at this as a problem, then adult video game players are clearly a symptom, not a cause.

Quoted from "OpeningMinds"
I have a theory that marrying later allows one to: (a) get all the things done one wants to do before settling down (college, traveling, game-stuff, etc.), or (b) become selfish about lifestyle choices and then find that settling down is too much of a sacrifice.

As a 25 year old man with no immediate interest in marriage, I have to ask - why would you see this as being selfish? I'm not sure I follow.

Quoted from "BigCat"

Quoted from "OpeningMinds"
I have a theory that marrying later allows one to: (a) get all the things done one wants to do before settling down (college, traveling, game-stuff, etc.), or (b) become selfish about lifestyle choices and then find that settling down is too much of a sacrifice.

As a 25 year old man with no immediate interest in marriage, I have to ask - why would you see this as being selfish? I'm not sure I follow.

FWIW, I don't think she means that being single is inherently selfish. She means that single people may get set in their ways, and then refuse to compromise once they do settle down, and in that way become selfish. For example "I've always spent every Saturday night with 'the guys' (or 'the girls') so why should I have to stop now?"

Quoted from "OpeningMinds"

Quoted from "BigCat"

Quoted from "OpeningMinds"
I have a theory that marrying later allows one to: (a) get all the things done one wants to do before settling down (college, traveling, game-stuff, etc.), or (b) become selfish about lifestyle choices and then find that settling down is too much of a sacrifice.

As a 25 year old man with no immediate interest in marriage, I have to ask - why would you see this as being selfish? I'm not sure I follow.

:D I don't see age 25 as being "late in life"!! I don't see you, at 25, as being selfish at all! I'm personally seeing a trend of many guys/gals waiting until their mid/late 30s before marrying ... that's quite late. And being single for the years before then may, I feel, increase a sense of selfishness in some individuals, making them less adaptable to couplehood (and kids). They become very used to doing things their way, not having to "share" their time and resources - and may find the drastic change to be too much to handle, bringing about increased divorces and resultant single parents.

That is a logical argument, but hasn't the divorce rate gone down in recent years? Unfortunately, I don't have the time to look it up right now, but I can check later.

Quoted from "WiseFolly"
... hasn't the divorce rate gone down in recent years? Unfortunately, I don't have the time to look it up right now, but I can check later.

The real analysis would be: has the rate of marriage stayed the same while the divorce rate has decreased? Or have both decreased?

Traditional marraiges (or marriage in general) is NOT for everyone ... some people stay single, perhaps not because they WANT to be single but because they don't want the alternative. Who knows ... but back to topic: I don't think video games have got anything major to do with it!

OM- I don't think 25 is particularly late in life, but a few years ago it would have been considered a very normal time to get married. And thank you for not calling me selfish ;-)

I do think that video games (along with sexy cars, plasma TVs, and other "toys" for adults) encourage adults to think "I don't have to settle down and focus on family yet. It's okay to just have fun."

Quoted from "Random"
I was entertained by this rebuttal to some rather tenuous claims about the affect of video games on the average 20 something year old male.

Man. I thought that first article was bad, but this one is even worse.

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At my college evening class last week, two intelligent, thirtysomething suited guys solicitors or managers to judge from their e-mail addresses were talking about their new Xbox 360s and what transcendent joy was to be had from them. I eavesdropped more attentively. Apparently, in Gears of War, the smallest details of the largest battles were crystal clear, in widescreen! Surely they were discussing their children s computer games? Xboxes are toys, after all.

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Who knew that the generation who first became addicted to Pac-Man and Super Mario would turn out to be boys who never grew up? Man-teens sitting before their kiddy consoles like huge manatees.

You can tell the unresearched articles right off the bat, as they almost always target men in "perpetual adolescence", yet forget the large chunk of women who play games.

Dr. Frank Gaskill, a child psychologist has written a pretty nice blog on the gaming subject. (Via Gamepolitics)

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In 1955, the U.S. Senate blasted comic books Half a century later, violent video games are the comic books of our day. Testimony before our [North Carolina] state Senate included descriptions of horrific-sounding games One frequently cited research article criticizing violent video games includes several studies. One of these studies was a correlational study from which the authors concluded, Playing violent video games often may well cause increases in delinquent behaviors, both aggressive and non-aggressive Correlations are just relationships between two variables; you can never say one causes the other. We could say that during the season when ice cream sales increase, shark attacks also increase. But we could not say the more ice cream you sell, the more you cause shark attacks.

So why is Dr. Gaskill defending violent games? He explains:

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Some legislative initiatives and public opinions across the country are based on fallacious assumptions, personal biases, political posturing and weak science. Common sense tells you that you don t let an elementary school kid or an older child with a history of aggressive behavior play Grand Theft Auto. But that same common sense tells you that if 90 percent of households have owned or rented a video game every year - while the juvenile crime rate has been going down for more than a decade - then a little Halo 3 never hurt anybody

And on it goes...

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Video Games Normalize Killing, Doctors Say Gamers Say Video Games Get Picked On OMAHA, Neb. -- Playing video games increases aggression in some children and young adults and normalizes killing, some doctors said. Research suggests that violent video games can make children feel different. A brain scan of a teenager who has just played what was deemed a nonviolent video game was compared to the scan of a teen who had just spent 30 minutes playing a violent game. Indiana School of Medicine researchers said highlighted areas in the brains showed increased activity in the areas involved in emotional arousal. "Exposure to violent video games, even E rated video games, increases aggressive thoughts, increases pro-social behavior and increases general arousal," said Dr. Greg Snyder, a psychologist at Omaha's Children's Hospital. Snyder said exposure to violence in video games can desensitize a teen to the real thing. Research from Iowa State University, Kansas State University and the National Institutes of Health reached similar conclusions. Compared to teens who played nonviolent games, those who played violent games had a lower heart rate and lower galvanic skin response when they were exposed to videos of real violence, the studies showed. "The more normal it is, the more likely it is they're going to activate or engage in those behaviors when provoked or even unprovoked," Snyder said. Tyler White, 17, said he has been playing video games as long as he can remember. He and his friend, Erik Grove, 16, play a game called "Gears of War." Both boys said they enjoy shooting games. "With a shooting game, you can't actually go out and shoot someone," White said. "The whole thing with video games is, do something you can't already do in real life, at least that's what it is to me." After they played the game for about 20 minutes, the teens said they didn't feel more violent. The video game industry notes that the research also finds that teenagers have similar responses to violence in movies or TV. The industry said no one can prove a definitive link between virtual violence and the real thing. Ryan Miller, the manager of general operations for Gamers in Omaha, said video games become an easy scapegoat when children turn violent. "Just like any new media, it gets attacked. When any new genre of music comes out, it gets attacked. TV will, of course, get attacked. I'm sure, way back when, books got attacked," Miller said. Other research shows that antisocial behavior is not a result of the game, but rather the isolation that results when children play the games along for hours on end. All sides of the argument agree that parental control is important, whether it's in the purchasing of games or playing them. Lora and Chuck Payne said they don't restrict the types of games their son, Tyler, plays, but they do give him a time limit. Chuck Payne said he knows some teens who are allowed to play for hours a day. "Then, when they're done playing, that's all that's on their mind. Kill. Kill. Kill. Well, one hour a day. Period," he said. The Paynes said they have not noticed a change in the son's aggression level after a gaming session, but they watch what he plays and they talk to him about the games he chooses. Learn more: Indiana.edu Psychiatry.org JohMurray.org http://www.ketv.com/news/15249738/detail.html

If I were to go on a shooting spree (though I'm not planning on one at this time), I would love to see how Jack Thompson would try and blame it on the times I played Intellivision's Burger Time with my mom after school in 1987... :wink:

Quoted from "SwingKid570"
If I were to go on a shooting spree (though I'm not planning on one at this time), I would love to see how Jack Thompson would try and blame it on the times I played Intellivision's Burger Time with my mom after school in 1987... :wink:

That's easy. The frustratingly cr ppy controller on the Intellivision would lead to a kind of pent up rage as you watched your unfortunate avatar die over and over at the hands of a wayward pickle or fried egg.

In other news, Britain's government finally wises up. Their ratings board, the BBFC, had previously refused to rate Manhunt 2, a notably violent game, due to the incorrect linkage between the original title and a murder several years ago. By not rating the game, it was effectively banned from the UK.

Yes, this kept the game out of the hands of children. However, it also kept the game out of the hands of everyone else. Not a fair compromise for the large number of mature, adult gamers.

In comes the UK government's Department for Culture, Media and Sport.

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"The classification of Manhunt 2 is a matter for the BBFC and the Video Appeals Committee," said a spokesperson, after today's news that the VAC had reaffirmed its decision to back Rockstar in an appeal over the BBFC's refusal to certify the game. "It is important to note that there is no conclusive evidence of any link between playing computer games and violent behaviour in real life," the spokesperson continued. "Our concern is to make sure that inappropriate material is kept away from children."

We don't want kids to have these games either, but allowing NOBODY to have them is excessive.

In similar news, Minnesota's "games as porn" bill was defeated again, in appeal.

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The 8th US Circuit Court of Appeals today upheld a ruling from 2006 stopping a Minnesota bill which attemped to fine minors 25 for trying to buy M- or AO-rated games. The Star Tribune reports a three-judge panel concluded that violent video games fall under First Amendment free speech protections and therefore the law can only hold if it is proven as "necessary to serve a compelling state interest and ... is narrowly tailored to achieve that end." The state introduced evidence, but could not prove a causal relationship between violent video games and aggressive behavior in children. Massachusetts politicians should probably take note, as they drive eyes wide open into a similar legal wall. In a statement sent to Joystiq, the Entertainment Software Association (ESA) stated it is both "pleased and encouraged" by today's ruling. The organization believes a combination of parental choice and oversight is the "only legal, sensible, and most importantly, effective way to empower parents." Expect a bill for the court fees soon enough, Minnesota.

The problem with these bills is that they're putting games in the same classification as pornography, not R rated movies and Parental Advisory music where they currently sit and belong. Its a good thing that high profile politicians like Elliot Spitzer support legislation like this.

The gaming industry currently uses a rating system that is similar to the voluntary peer rating system used by the MPAA and the RIAA. Yes, these are all voluntary, peer rating systems. They can not be legally enforced, as they have no government oversight. The ESRB's rating system is, in my opinion, better than any of the others. It has a 7 level rating system that clearly states who the game should be marketed to, and what age ranges. (E for everyone, as well as a E 10 for games that are more mature than a 2 year old should see, but not so mature that a 10 year old can't). It displays these ratings clearly on the game box, and all ads for the game, as well as a list of every determining factor that caused the rating to be what it is. Some examples:

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Alcohol Reference - Reference to and/or images of alcoholic beverages Animated Blood - Discolored and/or unrealistic depictions of blood Blood - Depictions of blood Blood and Gore - Depictions of blood or the mutilation of body parts Cartoon Violence - Violent actions involving cartoon-like situations and characters. May include violence where a character is unharmed after the action has been inflicted Comic Mischief - Depictions or dialogue involving slapstick or suggestive humor Crude Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving vulgar antics, including bathroom humor

The ECA's Hal Halpin agrees (from Gamepolitics):

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Many of the industry s greatest critics can (usually) agree on one thing: The [ESRB] is the best rating system for entertainment products

Hal writes that the ESRB system blows away that of the RIAA, which simply slaps Parental Advisory stickers on music, with no explanation. And while he finds the MPAA s system for movies to be better, its content descriptors can t compare to those of the ESRB.

So, why is this a perfectly accepted method of preventing minors access to movies and music, but not games? Why do games have to be classified as obscene, next to pornography, in order to protect children from them?

The cake is a lie.

Jack Thompson update-

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Judge's report in Jack Thompson case: guilty on 27 charges By Ben Kuchera Published: May 20, 2008 - 06:21PM CT In early 2007 the Florida Bar filed a five count, 38-page complaint against Florida Lawyer Jack Thompson, seeking sanctions against the outspoken critic of video games. "This is frankly once again just the Bar going off the deep end trying to use Bar rules to limit my First Amendment activism," Thompson said about the matter, according to Law.com. The trial ended in December 2007, and the verdict was expected in late April of this year. Judge Dava Tunis had asked for an extension in order to, among other things, deal with 400 "pleadings, e-mails, letters and missives (including pictorials)" sent by Thompson since the end of the trial. Judge Tunis has now released her report, with recommendations that Thompson be found guilty of 27 of the 31 charges. These are not small offenses, as Judge Tunis recommended a guilty verdict for, among other things, "knowingly making a false statement of material fact or law to a tribunal," "using means that have no purpose other than to embarrass, delay, or burden a third person," "engaging in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or misrepresentation," and "making statements that the lawyer knows to be false or with reckless disregard as to the truth or falsity concerning to the qualifications or integrity of a judge." It's hard to take Thompson's communications with the courts, the press, or government officials seriously at this point. Thompson has included gay pornography in his court filings, causing the Judge presiding over the case to note that "Mr. Thompson made available for unlimited public viewing, on the court s docketing system, these graphic images." In this most recent case, Thompson created a picture book in reaction to "the court's inability to comprehend" what he was saying. The book contained pictures of swastikas, a copied dollar bill, monkeys, and, in a surreal touch, a handprint with the word "slap" written under it. That's leaving out the cartoon squirrels. Earlier this year, Thompson asked why another gaming writer doesn't "just molest children directly rather than through Rockstar. It would be more personal that way." Snip

This guy is comedy gold.

Jack Thompson disbarred!