Quoted from "Zenin"
... if your resume really represents something real and meaningful, if it has real value, then you'd have the knowledge and presentation skills to easily make your points without having to resort to comparing resume penis sizes.

Knowledge, yes. Presentation skills, no. Assuming you whipped out your r sum to substantiate the idea that you know what you're talking about. (This seems to be Damon's point.) If Damon were to crack open a presentation skillz r sum to establish the idea that he will inevitably win the argument, then he would be making a statement about his presentation skills. But I think that would be more obnoxious than Damon even comes off as, to say nothing of how obnoxious he may or may not actually be.

Damon is allowed to assert that he knows what he is talking about, even if he hasn't won any arguments yet. As long as he's not talking about how to win arguments.

:argue:

:fight:

:bonk:

:crash:

:dunno:

:spineyes:

Quoted from "Marcelo"
There's a difference between promoting your credentials and attacking someone else's.

I concur!

Quoted from "Marcelo"
Damon attacks whoever he disagrees with by trashing their knowledge and experience instead of addressing their arguments. He argues that I'm so misinformed that I am unable to process what I see with my own two eyes into a conclusion I can trust. That's a pretty condescending attitude, as condescending as the belief that you can define what "blues dancing" is for other people.

That does sound pretty condescending. I'm skeptical that that's what he meant, although I leave open the possibility that that may have been what he said. But I really couldn't call that one either way. At this point, we're searching for needles in a stack of straw men. :-)

Quoted from "Marcelo"
That having been said, Damon is "allowed" to say anything he wants, regardless of how much he wants to stop other people from saying things, so yeah.

Lest you think that I agree with what you think that he thinks, let me point out that I haven't here endorsed Damon's resume (though I hear it's a fine one) or the conclusions he was allegedly trying to substantiate with it (whatever those may have been). I'm just trying to keep Zenin on his toes. It's so cute when he says something smart, that I just can't stand to see him go off on a wrong track. Especially if the wrong track looks like it might lead out to personal attacks, which have gotten him into trouble before.

Quoted from "redbean"
The only other thing I'll say (without sounding like a total free-love hippie, I hope) is that I really, really wish we could all just F CKING DANCE and not worry so much what other people are doing.

Don't worry, you sound nothing like a total free-love hippie. You've spent too many pages worrying about what other people are doing to be accused of that.

Too many of the defensive blues posters here wish to use the blues scene as part of their personal identity, inward and outward facing, and if the humpers are considered partly as representational of the blues scene then they take that idea as a personal attack directly on who they are, their self identity. That's where the huge defensiveness comes from.

It's just one of the risks you take when you attempt to define your own personal identity by linking it factors outside of your personal control, your sphere of influence. Rather then take the logical approach, they, being human, attempt instead to control the thing that is firmly outside their sphere of influence. They do this because they made the mistake of believing it actually is within their sphere of influence, the mistake that they have any actual control over it. It's like in personal relationships when you like someone and they don't like you back...and you feel like you can make them like you, as if how they feel about you is at all within your sphere of influence. It feels like it is...but try as hard as you might, nothing changes...you don't actually have control over it...and that drives you nuts.

Seems to me most of this thread is guilt by association:

• At blues dances, a small number of people are really creepy and are enabled by a broader range of acceptable behavior in blues dancing

• Blues dancing is different from lindy/swing but has a large number of people who are common to both groups

• If you're a blues dancer and you haven't tasered and carried these these guys off by yourself (without a cart and, by the way, we need a link to the video and a PDF of the restraining order), you must condone it.

• So, if you're a blues dancer, you're responsible for all of the unattractive behavior that happens when anyone is at a blues dance or teaching blues dancing.

Kinda like saying that because the frat boys at parties are dislocating gals' shoulders and dropping them on the ground while holding a beer and screaming "I'm dancing SWING!!! Get outta my way!!!!" that all of us are responsible for them.

Same kinda stuff that ABC News did a few days back (see Ayers - Obama).

Didn't make sense on national TV. Doesn't make much sense on a national dancers board either.

-= SLEEPLESS NIGHTS =-

Quoted from "Zenin"
The problem is that is rarely or ever used as a last resort by the particular people that employ it. It's effectively an inverted situation from what you describe above, where the "more experienced" person dismisses the comments of the "less experienced" out of hand. It's a purely arrogant maneuver, attempting to use one's resume in place of any actual evaluation and rebuttal.

LOL. I don't dismiss anything out of hand... I look at what is said weigh it and then make a decision based on the facts. Now when someone says something that is obviously wrong it takes very little time. For example co-leading. It only takes a moderate amount of knowledge of social partner dancing to swiftly reject that concept as the musings of a woefully uninformed or inexperienced dancer.

The idea that humping is somehow magically under the umbrella of blues because someone who is not a dancer and has not done any academic study to make up for that lack, is equally without basis.

The arguments regarding humping and blues have been addressed decisively. The response in this thread and others seems to be, 'you can't tell me that! You don't know!' and other sorts of weak arguments that boil down to 'you don't know what you are talking about.' Which is in fact, a direct challenge to me and my credentials. My response? Centers around, "yes I do, here are my credentials, the only reason you think this is because you are lacking."

If you bring up my credentials either directly or by implication, then responding with my credentials and asking for yours is a perfectly valid response. You don't get to later say I used it in a pissing contest, at least not without revealing that you lost the examination of credentials that YOU brought up.

Stop implying I'm unqualified to make the statements I make and try elevating your discussion to one which actually addresses why you think humping is under the blues umbrella (which would involve defining the blues umbrella), why humping is blues and not any of the other dances or genres in which it can be seen at venues, and how something that is seen in only a fraction of places, done by ony a fraction of people can be considered representative rather than an exception. Do that and see how quickly you are no longer dismissed and qualifications are no longer proffered or asked for.

Quoted from "dormouse"
The idea that humping is somehow magically under the umbrella of blues because someone who is not a dancer and has not done any academic study to make up for that lack, is equally without basis.

Is humping a blues dance? No, of course not, and no one has said it is (except in jest). This is an academic question and your bookworming might matter. Well, if anyone actually disagreed with you that is...but no one really does. You can stop playing the victim now.

Is humping part of the blues dancing scene, partly representative of the scene? Yes, of course it is, and all the bookworming in the world won't change that fact because it isn't an academic question, it's a census question.

Damon, not everything in the world boils down to who's stack of books is taller. Maybe if you had much else besides your stack of books to lean against you wouldn't feel the need to use it as a crutch so frequently. Beating down other points only appears to make yours stand taller, but it doesn't actually help support it. Mostly it just makes you look like an ass.

Quoted from "Marcelo"
The argument we've all made (and Zenin just nailed) is that it all falls under the common umbrella of "blues dancing," like it or not.

Quoted from "American Heritage Dictionary"
rep re sen ta tive n. 1. One that serves as an example or type for others of the same classification.

Quoted from "American Heritage Dictionary"
ex cep tion n. 1. The act of excepting or the condition of being excepted; exclusion. 2. One that is excepted, especially a case that does not conform to a rule or generalization.

Thank you Swifty for finally solving the problem. I called for proactive and positive change, and Swifty came to the rescue with a brilliant suggestion.

It is official: The term "blues dancers" (with quotations) shall never be used again and that particular lot shall now be referred to as "The Frottagers." "Those" types of parties with blues music where "The Frottagers" have infiltrated, shall be referred to as "Frottage Fests."

Blues dancers and blues dances shall only be used without quotations.

However, the term "ABSC" ( Anti - Blues - Superior - Crowd) shall remain unmolested.

Thank you.

"Frottage" is also a term for a type of surrealist "automatic" art creation process popularized by Max Ernst.

Sooo...if you co-opt that terminology you might get some pushback from the surrealist community. Just sayin.

Quoted from "Marcelo"

Quoted from "Keither"
This might be the time where I reoffer that bottle of booze to those people who think Damon is full of it. Challenge Damon to a cuttin' contest - you don't have to win - let me get it on video, and I'll supply you with a bottle of your favorite booze (up to a 50 value). Ultimately, we're talking dancing here, and while you may dismiss Damon's bibliography, you'll have to step up a lot more to dismiss his dancing. So far, none of the dissenting crowd has taken me up on this offer. I can't imagine why.

Because one's dancing ability has nothing to do with whether one's points are correct or not on a message board?

It's not about dance ability - like I said - you don't have to win. This isn't about disqualifying people based on their opinion. It's about disqualifying people who aren't willing to back their internet posts with some real life gumption.

Also, can you please define "correct" the way you're using it here, especially in terms of how it relates to both accuracy and precision? So far, I've seen a lot of people post a lot of opinions. Can you post some examples for me (busy day today) of posts you feel are correct?

I'm not the arbiter of anything. I'm just a guy who's offering a bottle of booze to people who think Damon's full of it online and are willing to cut with him.

Put words in other people's mouths much?

Quoted from "Marcelo"
On a second note, way to demonstrate the open and respectful give-and-take of the blues community. The only way you're allowed to have a legit opinion is by submitting a video to prove you have gumption. How friendly and welcoming.

Again, not what I said.

Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning?

Seriously Marcelo, did Keith [bleep!]block you or something? You seem to get awfully upset awfully fast. Why so defensive? Why so touchy? Is there some kind of insecurity there?