Quoted from "Swifty"
But really, I see more stuff like this than I do of "good" blues dancing on the very rare occasion I go to something with "Blues" in the name.

I just wanna add that that is one of the funniest goddamn videos I have ever seen in my life. That's like dramatic prairie dog funny.

Quoted from "petalscutiegirl"
Realistically, though, no number of amazing, well run, mature blues dancing events will change your mind. No words about it, no experiences to the contrary will ever convince many of you that blues is more than sex on the floor. Which is sad, because you're missing out on an awesome genre of dance.

He's not saying that that isn't available, nor is he saying that the blues scene doesn't have those valuable elements. He's talking about representation and reputation.

Back when neoswing was huge you'd hear all the lindy hoppers saying that zoot suits and BBVD weren't "representative" of the swing community either, and they were wrong then because it WAS representative and real lindy hoppers were a minority. They managed to change the representation enough to make themselves right over time, though.

Similarly, no one's arguing that there isn't a decent blues experience out there or that it's not part of the scene, but the evidence right now seems to be that these sorts of juvenile events and "erotic parties" are still representative of the scene. In the future that may change if you can convert enough folks, but until then it's the reality of the situation. You may not want it to be that way, you may be working to change that, but right now at this moment in time it still seems that way to me, and to a lot of other people.

Damn you Marcelo, you managed to post almost exactly what I was going to post. Obviously, I agree completely.

Quoted from "petalscutiegirl"
However, I also feel you should judge a dance based on what's selling the most, not what is the most extreme element. What's selling the most for lindy right now is events like ULHS; for blues, it's events like BluesSHOUT. Are there still a vocal group of sex on the dance floor "blues" dancers and promoters? Yes. But they are falling in number and in success.

ULHS is a very popular and successful event, and I'd gleefully expound on it's virtues at great length, but I don't know that it's the defining event of present day Lindy Hop. I'd say your generic exchange format is still the most popular style of event and if you added up the participants of said exchanges, they'd swamp the competitions ... ULHS flavor or not.

petals -

Maybe the market is trending your way, but your claim, that that blues isn't representative of the scene as a whole isn't exactly correct. It IS representative. So is a video of you and your husband dancing. They're both representative of the same scene.

For every great blues workshop that gets attended by a few hundred people, there's probably a weekly dance somewhere where people grind away. They're different markets, the weekly dances and the workshops.

wrt confirmation bias, I don't see why I would have it. I would love nothing more than for sex dancing to go away forever.

Quoted from "Addict"

Quoted from "petalscutiegirl"
However, I also feel you should judge a dance based on what's selling the most, not what is the most extreme element. What's selling the most for lindy right now is events like ULHS; for blues, it's events like BluesSHOUT. Are there still a vocal group of sex on the dance floor "blues" dancers and promoters? Yes. But they are falling in number and in success.

ULHS is a very popular and successful event, and I'd gleefully expound on it's virtues at great length, but I don't know that it's the defining event of present day Lindy Hop. I'd say your generic exchange format is still the most popular style of event and if you added up the participants of said exchanges, they'd swamp the competitions ... ULHS flavor or not.

In other words, there's a segment of Lindy Hoppers for whom ULHS is the defining event, but I think they(we) are a relatively small minority in the scene. A very loud, and to a lesser extent influential, minority to be sure, but a minority we are none the less.

Quoted from "Dr. Feelgood"
B.O.O.B.S. 2008 - You've already established the fact that it's run by a college group of kids/young adults that at this time really don't any better. Obviously, they think it's a cool joke/acronym, not the first time it's happened folks and it may not be the last considering dance scenes need an influx of younger people in order to stay alive. They're going to "cut their teeth" just like you guys did...and you turned out ok, didn't you? Yes, the name is UNFORTUNATE, and the people you've singled out by name (Lucky, Lessa, Mihai) may not have had much influence either way when it came to choosing a name...and maybe they did. But it's in extremely poor taste for them to have been called out in a forum such as this one. My guess until I hear something different from them - they are there to promote and enhance the dance. If there is "something else brewing" that maybe some of you online folks know about for certain...what is it? I mean really, if people are actually so concerned about what "sexual overtones" might be on the menu, or they are offended/saddened by the name of the event - there is a big link to click on that says: CONTACT US. I'm sure that's not there just for show. With all the venom that gets thrown around, I'm sure some people could just as easily inform them respectfully that perhaps their "joke"is not very appreciated and could hurt them at the attendance level. Or is it just easier and more fun to dog their event out online?

Well said. (I mean the rest of your post as well.)

For what it's worth, I've calmed down about it a little bit (it is a bunch of kids after all), but this is what I wrote to the event organizers:

Quote
Dear Organizers, Thought you might like to know, there is a thread about the name of your event on Yehoodi, and it is not receiving a positive response. When promoting a workshop weekend, a blues exchange, or any other blues dance event, you are always promoting the genre itself as a social and expressive art form. Many blues dancers have been trying to fight the negative image of blues dancing as sleazy for years now, and by naming your event with the acronym BOOBS and listing it as an "erotic party" on your facebook page, you are contributing to the stereotype. As event organizers, this is the last thing you should want to do not only for your event, but for blues dancing as a whole. This is especially true in the case of a workshop weekend intended to improve people's dancing and reduce creepy and/or bad habits. I am sure you have put a lot of time and effort into this event. It is too late to go back now, but perhaps you should reconsider a few things the next time around. Sincerely, Meredith

Anyhow, they might not know about all of this history involved. It's trial by fire, and I'm sure they will learn something from this.

Well, that's true. However, they are college students and I'm sure they have limited time. (I sure shouldn't be on Yehoodi as much as I am.) Anyhow, I didn't even know about Yehoodi until a year or so after I started dancing.

That being said, I would expect that organizers would be in the scene long enough and would be well-informed enough not to do something like this. Maybe it is just immaturity? :dunno:

Quoted from "pill_popper"

Quoted from "WiseFolly"
For what it's worth, I've calmed down about it down (it is a bunch of kids after all), but this is what I wrote to the event organizers:

Quote
Dear Organizers,...................... Sincerely, Meredith

Anyhow, they might not know about all of this history involved. It's trial by fire, and I'm sure they will learn something from this.

You forgot to ask them if they're going to hand out condoms.

:green:

Quoted from "HammerTime"
I don't understand the problem with BOOBS... There are people who are into blues dancing to grind all up in someone else's business and be creepy and gropey. Are you just going to barge in on all of them and tell them that they are doing it wrong and to turn off the music? Why not just let them have their own "sexy times" events that they clearly mark as such and just choose not to go to them. I assume people would go to an event like BOOBS because they WANT to dance that way. I don't see the problem. I would rather all the creepy and overly sexually agressive dancers be encouraged to go dance with like-minded people.

I agree (and did agree earlier here). I don't think anyone is saying they CAN'T have any event they like, with whatever theme and activities therein they choose.

Some of us are just mocking that, which is our right.

Others are debating whether the existence of this/these flavored events colors the public perception of other blues events that have different emphases.

There are a few different dogs in this fight.

Addict, Cheap Thrills (speaking for Heidi Fite) was designed as an offshoot of STLBX...the St.Louis Lindy, Blues Exchange. It wasn't solely a "blues thing", it was more about blues music. The "Cheap" part that gets referred to had to do with a much lower price for registration than the main event STLBX. The organizers asked people if they'd come back to St.Louis again and people responded - hence the two events there each year.

My signature - Is an edited comment made by Carly about a class taught by Peter Strom. I didn't use Peter's name because it's more about Carly than anything else. While in college her African Dance team had just returned from Africa doing a tour...and she was in fine dance form at the time she made that comment.

You're right though...nothing to see here, move along.

Here's the thing. Whenever the topic of "blues dancing" comes up, I generally say that I'm not interested because the vast majority of my experience with that scene has been with events or dances like those I've linked to in this thread.

When I say that, the staunchest of blues defenders/purists/what-have-yous jump down my throat and say that's not what the scene is about, events aren't like that, dances aren't like that, dancers aren't like that, teachers aren't teaching that, etc. I'm made out to be either ignorant, stupid, or both, and that I just don't fully grasp the wonders of this amazingly historical, non-sexually charged dance.

The fact of the matter is that I know darn well that I'm not making this stuff up and am not just basing my opinions on outdated stereotypes or ignorance. This is just the latest example of that.

Now don't get me wrong, I have danced, and will continue to dance, when slow and/or blues music is played if I'm out and in the mood. I have a long, established history of doing so. Generally, from what I hear from people, I'm not a spastic failure when I do so, but I won't ever call it "blues dancing" because I've never taken a blues class and don't ever intend to.

Just please stop telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about when I have an opinion of the "blues scene" that doesn't jive with the way you want it to be.

Quoted from "petalscutiegirl"
If my entire idea of the lindy hop community was based on what I heard about it when I started dancing, I don't think I would've ever thought of it as a "dance" scene. Before I went to my first exchange, I was told that lindy exchanges in general are "glorified fluid exchanges." I heard that people in the scene were basically there to pick up people to screw. Were those thoughts and comments representative of the greater lindy community? Maybe, maybe not. Just as this event is not representative of the greater blues community. .

Actually in the early days of lindy exchanges, that is exactly what they were about. Where do you think the term star [bleep!]ers came from?

And holy [bleep!], beckto and I agree on something...not sure what, but it has to do with blues dancing

This thread is petty and not particularly constructive.

1) I wouldn't consider Mihai a National Blues instructor. He promotes himself as such, but it is like Kenny G promoting himself as a Jazz musician.

2) Addict, Ass is not a dirty term. Ass is a word that (from my perspective and what I have gleaned from instruction) represents heavy grounded, hip motion. Someone who really does swivels well in a swingout may do them with ass. I would think that is a similar thought to how Carly intended it..

3) It seems like this is run by young kids. I was upset at this thread at first and then I remember it is Yehoodi, and there is nothing that a core people love to do more than to snark at things to help them get through the day..

4) certain people don't seem to know(unless they were trying to be funny) the history of Swing before 1997 and Gap commercials. Swing was just as much about going out with your girl to have a good time before you have sex, as Blues dancing was. It could be argued that swing was danced by more well off people maybe who could afford to go to the Savoy or similar events and ballrooms but I would argue that the same people who swung out at the Savoy on Saturday were doing the Mooch or Slow Drag on Wed night.

Many don't like the false advertising of this I am sure that at worst, the scandalous sensuality will pretty much equate to a cuddle party with yoga pants. I would agree and people are fighting it. Like the Lindy people who eventually slayed the NeoSwing beast, we Historical blues dancers will eventually slay the beast that is gropey "contact improv". Though I still have a hard time believing that all these people on Yehoodi have never hooked up with another swing dancer, dated or otherwise.