Obviously, a lot of people see the blues scene one way. They're not just listening to the hype, they're stating their observations.

If you're part of the blues scene, the burden is on YOU to change that opinion, if you dislike that particular take on it.

Getting antagonistic, defensive, and attacking people who are stating opinion and observation is a piss poor way to do that. In other words, you're not helping.

DJ - We have to go through this exact same discussion every 6-12 months. Maybe this is Swifty's way of getting enough traffic on the board to make Manu finish the Yehoodi 3.0 upgrade.

Quoted from "Keither"
It's not like Yehoodi (and several other boards) aren't filled with threads upon threads of loudmouths (like me) expounding for pages and pages on what to do and not do at an exchange/workshop/late night party.

That's part of the problem with using Yehoodi and the like: Most of what you'll find are the "loudmouths" of the boards which aren't a fair representation of the forum community, which itself doesn't represent much of the overall dance community. To listen to the "loudmouths" would be to allow undo influence by what can only be honestly described as a very small subset of hardcore dance enthusiasts that by no means can be said to be a valid representation of the larger dance community. They wish to be exceptional and so they are the exception, not the rule.

WRT, "Cheap Thrills", of course the name is clearly intended as a comedic double entendre. To deny that intent Steven, is just silly. "Cheap Thrills" is a far more clever name then B.O.O.B.S. and I give the organizers much credit for that, but lets be honest here the sexual connotation is real and deliberate (if it's not deliberate the organizers are daft, which I don't believe). Thus it's valid to call out the hypocrisy of Cheap Thrills supporters denouncing the event title BOOBS. They can chide BOOBS for not being very clever, but not for the sexual overtone.

I really mean 'dance geek', which is a badge I wear with pride myself, but which some dance geeks may take offense to. ;-)

Quoted from "Keither"
DJ - We have to go through this exact same discussion every 6-12 months. Maybe this is Swifty's way of getting enough traffic on the board to make Manu finish the Yehoodi 3.0 upgrade.

Yes, and the reason the discussion ressurects itself every 6 months is that the general opinion of the scene is not improving, regardless of whats actually happening.

I mean, I absolutely love Ogden, Amanda, Heidi, etc. Its not a pot shot at them, or the events where good things are happening. We're just not SEEING it, because to us its all blending together in to one humpy beaver clamp. Whenever someone points out whats wrong, both sides get in to a shouting match and nothing gets resolved.

The fact remains, in order to stop this cycle, the blues scene is going to have to lay a serious smackdown on its own folks who ARE doing the humpy crap that we're all still seeing, as well as being much more vocal about denouncing it. As long as nothing changes in that respect, none of our opinions of the scene will either.

Quoted from "tommyd76"
2) Addict, Ass is not a dirty term. Ass is a word that (from my perspective and what I have gleaned from instruction) represents heavy grounded, hip motion. Someone who really does swivels well in a swingout may do them with ass.

Fair point. However, the main thrust(heh, get it) of my post was about Cheap Thrills.

And with regards to Mihai:

1. If one states one is a national Blues instructor and
2. One gets hired across the country as a Blues instructor than
3. One can credibly claim to be a national Blues instructor

Perhaps he doesn't meet that criteria, honestly I don't know.

FTR, there have been people who have been 'national Lindy Hop instructors' and who have taught stuff across the country that I found regrettable(no I won't bring up names).

I didn't DENY anything Byron. I said I really didn't know, nor did I care. I don't recall seeing you there to offer conjecture on what the "meaning" of Cheap Thrills may have been for a lindy/blues event back in April 2002. Of course, I can say today - Cheap Thrills, despite costing HALF what the big exchange cost, must have been brimming with entendre...sure. Feel better now?

Quoted from "Beckto"
(I don't think Keifer is really an a-hole... even though he likes "blues dancing.")

Actually he likes blues dancing. Stop putting quotes around it if you honestly think there's no difference with or without them.

yes, public floggings, the would solve everything. But seriously, I can't think of anyone in the lindy or blues scene that I know that can hear a blues song and honestly say it does not bring about leg humping. It's the nature of the music. The majority of blues songs are about sex, alcohol, food, and dancing.

Quoted from "sdswinger"
The majority of blues songs are about sex, alcohol, food, and dancing.

How about these lindy songs: Keep On Churnin' All That Meat And No Potatoes Frim Fram Sauce One Bourbon, One Scotch, One Beer

Shall I go on? The double entendre is present in all of the music we dance to, blues or "swing". (Never mind that most of the "swing" music we listen to is blues anyway.) Let's also not talk about the Charleston or why the ladies would kick so high. yawn Old hat. Srsly.

Quoted from "sdswinger"
yes, public floggings, the would solve everything. But seriously, I can't think of anyone in the lindy or blues scene that I know that can hear a blues song and honestly say it does not bring about leg humping. It's the nature of the music. The majority of blues songs are about sex, alcohol, food, and dancing.

That crazy jazz music just makes you want to drink and smoke and get high. It'll drive all the kids crazy!!!! It's just the nature of the music. (and I've never done any leg humping, except maybe as a joke)

Is blues music sensual? Yes. It's also painful, mournful, happy, praiseful, fun, sad, happy, and any number of other emotions. To boil it all down to sex is simplistic at best.

And if those are the only themes you've heard, you've really only heard songs about sex. Songs about food and alcohol are NEVER about food or alcohol. ;)

Great post Chiv.

Quoted from "Wexie"

Quoted from "DJLarkin"
Obviously, a lot of people see the blues scene one way. They're not just listening to the hype, they're stating their observations. If you're part of the blues scene, the burden is on YOU to change that opinion, if you dislike that particular take on it. Getting antagonistic, defensive, and attacking people who are stating opinion and observation is a piss poor way to do that. In other words, you're not helping.

DJ, there is also a way of approaching this subject constructively. This thread just feels like people are getting way too much enjoyment reveling in the the blues community's misfortune. The tone feels like: "Did you see that that big pimple on Betty's nose. She looks aweful! And did you see her face when brett pointed it out in front of the entire class!" :::laugh::: I'm not even a "blues dancer," and that's how it is coming across to me.

Because at this point, the entire discussion has been rehashed so many times that its become a big fat joke.

Nothing's changed, ball is in their court.

Quoted from "petalscutiegirl"
DJLarkin wrote: The fact remains, in order to stop this cycle, the blues scene is going to have to lay a serious smackdown on its own folks who ARE doing the humpy crap that we're all still seeing, as well as being much more vocal about denouncing it. As long as nothing changes in that respect, none of our opinions of the scene will either. I thought that was what we were doing in this thread. We're being vocal about denouncing it, we're talking about why it's not what we see as being the real scene, what more do you want? Public floggings?

As many people have pointed out, you're wasting your breath on yehoodi. Thats not motivating change in the slightest. We post on yehoodi to a vocal minority of the scene, and it has little impact. Posts on yehoodi are more of a social commentary than a vehicle for change.

What needs to be done is at the basic level at the events themselves. As long as people continue to act one way, and others continue to observe that act, no amount of eloquence on yehoodi is going to sway the opinion of anyone.

Quoted from "Keither"
In all honesty, we leaders in the blues community have enough to do without having to constantly fend off indictments from Yehoodites who KNOW that there's a basis to what we're trying to accomplish.

They don't know, or at least it sounds like hollow rhetoric to a lot of people. Its hard to believe when they don't see any actual changes.

Admit there's a problem, identify solutions, extend an olive branch and try to be less openly hostile with people who point out that problem and relations between the two communities will go a long way. Even if the people attacking the scene are being unfair, in your opinion, what good does attacking back do to your cause? The rabidly defensive posts from the blues camp is not helping.

Quoted from "Zenin"
Spot on Chivalrous.

Do you see this in Los Angeles as well?

DJ, you said:

Admit there's a problem, identify solutions, extend an olive branch and try to be less openly hostile with people who point out that problem and relations between the two communities will go a long way. Even if the people attacking the scene are being unfair, in your opinion, what good does attacking back do to your cause? The rabidly defensive posts from the blues camp is not helping.

PetalsCutieGirl said this back on page 2:

Trust me when I say that events like this upset and disgust me MORE than most of you simply because I know what blues dancing really is and really should be. Events like this make it harder for real, legitimate blues dancing to thrive because they (rightly) put off people who don't need dancing to interact with members of the opposite sex.

Now I don't know what more you'd want someone to say...

Quoted from "petalscutiegirl"
...what more do you want? Public floggings?

well, at least until moral improves, heh.

on a different note, I think there's a significant location factor involved in this perception of blues. The style of blues danced in San Francisco has been around much longer than any blues done here on the east coast. Considering that weekly blues venues/instruction has only been happening for a little over a year over here (i thought LaB was the first, but I don't know when Ogden & Amanda started Independently Blues up in Boston; MondayNite blues in NYC only got on its feet last spring), I think it's accurate to say that we're a little behind the cultural shift. This seems like a much more plausible explanation of what Swifty & DJLarkin's experiences have been in NYC and DC compared to petalscutiegirl in SF.

Despite the fact that it's easier to travel from coast to coast now than ever before, these kinds of changes still take a while to diffuse.

In a similar note, (and this is the first time i've mentioned this in a public forum) this is one of the reasons I'm so disappointed that BluesSHOUT was moved out to San Francisco. I'm sure there are many many logistical reasons for moving it west, but it means I (and likely most people from the southeast and northeast) can't go because of the time and expense it takes to travel out there.

Cheap Thrills 2006 and BluesSHOUT were pivotal experiences in my blues development. In large part it was because there were dancers from CA, the northwest, chicago, the southeast, & the northeast. St. Louis was reasonably accessible by all those locations. IMO, it was where a lot of dance knowledge/culture/style/whathaveyou got transferred to new geographic areas.

Anyway, I'd say that blues is changing and growing, and the perceptions of it are changing and growing. it's just happening a bit slowly over here.