I don't intend for this request to be inflammatory. When someone I know asks about swing dancing I have about three or four clips which I think perfectly represent what I love about swing - the epitome if you will. The clips are usually famous...
Thanks, Damon. Your explanation makes sense to me, especially when you use the general (as opposed to the musical) definition of polyphonic. Describing music and dance in words is ridiculously difficult. Besides, I cannot think of a better way to say it.
I'm going to go back to being technical and nerdy for a sec...
As for polyrhythms in blues and jazz, it is just my feeling that jazz and blues historians use this term differently than classical musicians do. (I say this without having researched it enough to give a valid opinion.) When reading about jazz and blues, I have often come across the term polyrhythm. A quick google search led me to a book that gave 12/8 imposed over a 4/4 meter as an example of polyrhythm. (I don't recall if it was written as triplets in 4/4, or if it was written in 12/8 which is always played as 4/4 anyhow.) The point being, 12/8, in classical terms, is actually compound meter (not polyrhythm), but I guess I can see how it would be called a polyrhythm if it was written in 4/4. That's just a minor quibble. Jazz and Blues historians may also be referring to hemiola as polyrhythm, but I'm not sure. In any event, what I'm really trying to say is that it seems the nomenclature is different between genres, and I'm okay with that (though it usually confuses me for a second when I encounter it in that context).
Polyphonic as a general term refers to many voices or sounds. In musical terms it is having two or more voices or parts, each with an independent melody, but all harmonizing. When you put the word into the sentence "Having a polyphonic look/feel to the body..." it would imply, to me, that the dancing body looks as if it is separate voices singing different melodies but harmonizing.
So like, my right shoulder singing an A, my left hip a C , and my right knee an E. But god forbid my neck adds a B-flat, as that'd be inharmonious! ;)
Quoted from "petalscutiegirl" I'm surprised no one has linked to the blues dance project on youtube yet. Charlie has collected all the best of blues dance videos and posted them there.
It won't let me see the videos without an invitation, and for some reason, I can't get the link to join the group to work properly. :( Maybe it will work on my laptop at home.
I was going to ask about vintage clips, and it looks like there are a couple in there. If there are any more that anyone knows of, I'd love to see them.
Quoted from "terry monaghan" I ve come across no reference to the term blues ballroomin in relation to the Savoy. I have heard various references to the same dance being called The Ballroom in the Swing Era, and which incidentally probably owed more to adagio than any ballroom dance. Austin and Austin were the classic Whitey s Lindy Hopper's exponents, whilst Little Nick and Iva were the same for the Third Generation. It was one of two slow dances that evolved at the Savoy, the other being Walking The Floor.
It isn't a historical term. Even "Blues dance" as a genre is a more modern term, not one which was used, as far as I can tell, with any frequency if at all during the height of the popularity of blues music.
Ballrooming and Ballroom Blues (and the other names associated with it) are all various takes on the title of that particular section in "The Spirit Moves."
My understanding seems similar to your own about the style of slow dancing done in the Savoy Ballroom. My great-aunt refers to it as "The Walk," I would imagine what she is refering to is the same "Walking the Floor" you are talking about.
As to why various dances from different parts of the country with different moves and rhythms are clustered together under the umbrella of blues dance... for the same reason why the term jazz dance or swing dance is used. Convenient group labeling of dances that use similar elements/aesthetics.
I'm going to go back to being technical and nerdy for a sec...
As for polyrhythms in blues and jazz, it is just my feeling that jazz and blues historians use this term differently than classical musicians do.
I think the wikipedia entry on polyrhythm isn't bad -- all references I've found suggest that the word almost always refers to something like 2 against 3, 3 against 4, 3 against 5, etc... 12/8 is essentially just 4/4 with triplet subdivisions, so it wouldn't qualify in my book.
Whether jazz/blues musicians use the term that way... shrug. That might depend on where/how they got their training. Many train at schools/conservatories sharing many classes as classical musicians, which would suggest they do, but I don't know for sure...
My question is what happened to Blues as a performance dance? There were a ton of creative, and just kick ass routines at ALHC in 2000 and 2001. I remember the 2001 ALHC blues division as especially creative, competitive and diverse. And then after that, it seems like blues as performance just dropped off the face of the earth. Routines, not just good ones, seem pretty far and few between since then.
My guess was the further clarification of the blues division as a slow music division for any non-lindy hop dance. When West Coast, Shag, and Foxtrot started making appearances the more authentically minded seemed to abandon the division... then again this may have been the general marginalization of ALHC as the primary Lindy Hop competitive event.
National Jitterbug Championships gained popularity around that time and the Ultimate Lindy Hop Showdown ascended to be widely regarded as the best national lindy hop competition in the states.
Quoted from "Phlurg" Whether jazz/blues musicians use the term that way... shrug. That might depend on where/how they got their training. Many train at schools/conservatories sharing many classes as classical musicians, which would suggest they do, but I don't know for sure...
Which frequently sucks away their soul having a detrimental effect on their blues/jazz playing. 'Just saying.
Quoted from "JSAlmonte" My question is what happened to Blues as a performance dance? There were a ton of creative, and just kick ass routines at ALHC in 2000 and 2001. I remember the 2001 ALHC blues division as especially creative, competitive and diverse. And then after that, it seems like blues as performance just dropped off the face of the earth. Routines, not just good ones, seem pretty far and few between since then.
jerry
jerry, imo there have been way MORE of them since then, not less- people just don't do it so much at alhc. it's all over the place otherwise- herrang, showdown, camp jitterbug, southwest lindyfest, rhythmic arts, not to mention the crop of purely blues events where performances and comps are huge.
Quoted from "JSAlmonte" My question is what happened to Blues as a performance dance? There were a ton of creative, and just kick ass routines at ALHC in 2000 and 2001. I remember the 2001 ALHC blues division as especially creative, competitive and diverse. And then after that, it seems like blues as performance just dropped off the face of the earth. Routines, not just good ones, seem pretty far and few between since then.
jerry
jerry, imo there have been way MORE of them since then, not less- people just don't do it so much at alhc. it's all over the place otherwise- herrang, showdown, camp jitterbug, southwest lindyfest, rhythmic arts, not to mention the crop of purely blues events where performances and comps are huge.
I wasn't really referring to just ALHC, but in general. I guess I haven't been looking in the right places, but all the really notable routines have been listed already, i.e. Grit Grinder Girlies, Ogden and Amanda, Brenda & Shaheed. There seems to be a big gap between ALHC 2001 and Blueshout 2007, but like I said, maybe I just haven't been looking hard enough. There's plenty of examples of social dancing and some small teams, but very few straight up choreographed couple routines.
There were a few good blues routines at ALHC 2004 - including vintage blues and shag. After an (apparent?) absence in 2005, the division returned in 2006.
Here is a pretty good video from 2006, this was the second place couple:
Jeremy and Kristin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rbvwzaoQ0E
Though I would agree, there seems to have been an explosion of blues routines in the last year or two compared to what was going on for several years before that. bluesSHOUT may have been a seminal event in many ways. (although, Cheap Thrills 06 could be called a precursor to that, from everything I've heard) It is an exciting time for the blues community :)
Quoted from "Signet" There were a few good blues routines at ALHC 2004 - including vintage blues and shag. After an (apparent?) absence in 2005, the division returned in 2006.
Here is a pretty good video from 2006, this was the second place couple:
Jeremy and Kristin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rbvwzaoQ0E
Though I would agree, there seems to have been an explosion of blues routines in the last year or two compared to what was going on for several years before that. bluesSHOUT may have been a seminal event in many ways. (although, Cheap Thrills 06 could be called a precursor to that, from everything I've heard) It is an exciting time for the blues community :)
Yeah, now that you mention it I do remember thinking that blues seemed to be making a comeback at ALHC in 2006 because there were 5 very different takes on blues dancing. Although, if I recall, most of those routines were choreographed on very short notice if at all.
I just watched ALHC 2004 last week and it reminded me that the blues division was more interesting for the behind the scenes intrigue than what actually happened on the dance floor.
Quoted from "JSAlmonte" I just watched ALHC 2004 last week and it reminded me that the blues division was more interesting for the behind the scenes intrigue than what actually happened on the dance floor.
Certainly true by today's standards, although I like Doug & Debbie's shag routine. (nothing amazing after years of watching routines, but solidly good dancing) Although watching lindy routines from 3-4 years ago is a similar experience - today, the top dancers are so much better that they were even just a few years ago.
Looking at that another way, comparing the blues routines from 2003-04 vs 2006-07, that means in the next three years we could see a similar or larger amount of growth - which would be a great thing to have happen.
ALHC is really not what one should use as a measuring tool about blues as a dance or scene... there is no blues required in the division, you could Salsa to a Shakira song and win, for them it is nothing but tempo, and at least partially to blame for the idea that anything slow is automatically blues.
That of course is not intended to disrespect the dancers in it, just to say that the division itself should not be used as an indicator.
Quoted from "dormouse" ALHC is really not what one should use as a measuring tool about blues as a dance or scene... there is no blues required in the division, you could Salsa to a Shakira song and win, for them it is nothing but tempo, and at least partially to blame for the idea that anything slow is automatically blues.
That of course is not intended to disrespect the dancers in it, just to say that the division itself should not be used as an indicator.
But that's what I'm wondering. Once you get rid of ALHC, has there been many or any notable coupled blues routines? I can't tell from Youtube. Have they been perfromed at events, but not recorded? Or is it a case where the blues community concentrated more on the social dance aspect and only recently has the performance side re-emerged again?
Even the explanation of 'polyphonic' doesn't work. If you have to use a musical compositional device to describe the look of a body... then I would offer homophonic. Typically describing 4 voices (more than one at the very least), working to create harmony, so therefore somewhat independent, but in a unified rhythmic nature.
I still don't like it, though. Seems like too much of a stretch when there are a ton of other english words that aren't strictly musical jargon. :dunno:
Quoted from "Beckto" Even the explanation of 'polyphonic' doesn't work. If you have to use a musical compositional device to describe the look of a body... then I would offer homophonic. Typically describing 4 voices (more than one at the very least), working to create harmony, so therefore somewhat independent, but in a unified rhythmic nature.
I still don't like it, though. Seems like too much of a stretch when there are a ton of other english words that aren't strictly musical jargon. :dunno:
Speaking as a longtime lover of semantics, from whom other people seek advice on issues of language, and who personally finds pleasure in clearly defined words and precise diction, I say: This "polyrhythmic vs. polyphonic vs whatever" argument is boring as all hell.
It's Damon's own definition, there's more to it than this one word you clearly have different perspectives on, and ANYWAY, the thread is requesting clips that help define the style, not a universally acceptable verbal defintion.
Is this a question about routines or social dance?
I don't understand the relevance of routines to the character of social Blues dance. The routine blues dance doesn't seem to have very much in common with social blues dance. Even contrasting routines and social dances with the same people, the routines often don't look all that much like the social dance.
Quoted from "Atalanta" Speaking as a longtime lover of semantics, from whom other people seek advice on issues of language, and who personally finds pleasure in clearly defined words and precise diction, I say: This "polyrhythmic vs. polyphonic vs whatever" argument is boring as all hell.
I agree it's off topic for here and should stick to clips but would make for an interesting discussion for a different thread - applying musical terms to dance doesn't work but for many concepts terms don't exist.
I could see how it might be boring if one isn't musically trained. Actually this was probably the only time I was ever interested in a semantic discussion so to each their own ;)
Now on with the clips!
Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?
Quoted from "Beckto" Even the explanation of 'polyphonic' doesn't work. If you have to use a musical compositional device to describe the look of a body... then I would offer homophonic. Typically describing 4 voices (more than one at the very least), working to create harmony, so therefore somewhat independent, but in a unified rhythmic nature.
I still don't like it, though. Seems like too much of a stretch when there are a ton of other english words that aren't strictly musical jargon. :dunno:
Speaking as a longtime lover of semantics, from whom other people seek advice on issues of language, and who personally finds pleasure in clearly defined words and precise diction, I say: This "polyrhythmic vs. polyphonic vs whatever" argument is boring as all hell.
It's Damon's own definition, there's more to it than this one word you clearly have different perspectives on, and ANYWAY, the thread is requesting clips that help define the style, not a universally acceptable verbal defintion.
Quoted from "petalscutiegirl" I'm surprised no one has linked to the blues dance project on youtube yet. Charlie has collected all the best of blues dance videos and posted them there.
I was able to request to join the group once I got home. Once I receive the confirmation, I will check them out!
I don't know enough to say which others might be definitive, but I really liked this ballrooming one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJmYcFHAN8&feature=PlayList&p=BD92BF5BAB1F109D&index=6
This other one from Damon and Heidi shows them demonstrating several Blues varients with labels (from a class, not social dancing or performing), and I found it really helpful as a reminder of the distinction between them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwXbXhv0aeY
Quoted from "Whisper" I don't know enough to say which others might be definitive, but I really liked this ballrooming one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJmYcFHAN8&feature=PlayList&p=BD92BF5BAB1F109D&index=6
This other one from Damon and Heidi shows them demonstrating several Blues varients with labels (from a class, not social dancing or performing), and I found it really helpful as a reminder of the distinction between them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJmYcFHAN8&feature=PlayList&p=BD92BF5BAB1F109D&index=6
Duh, the links are the same.
But anyway, the first clip demonstrates frequently something I dislike about a lot of ballrooming blues I see (and find I'm often guilty of myself...): Frequently Lindy basic rhythms are forced into the patterns, making them often look and feel very out of place with the music that does not share those rhythms. Movements often end up very rushed when dancing to slower music as the dancers will double time their Lindy rhythms to "fit", or less often the movements will be painfully too slow as they attempt to fit Lindy rhythms in time (Ti Chi Lindy passed off as Blues...ugg).
The music in this clip in particular is very stressed, tensed...the ballrooming movements in this video march (yes march) right over it most of the time rather then embellishing the moment and the tension.
I know personally as a lead I'll hear the tension, try to lead with it...but find since I'm technically borrowing a pattern from Lindy my follow will backlead away from the tension right into Lindy rhythms that aren't anywhere in the music ("oh, you're doing a tuck turn...I know that...it goes like this..."). It's much more a problem in open where I've less intrinsic ability to override a backlead...which I think is commonly the case and demonstrated in the video above: Their closed position dancing is much more in the music then any of the open "ballrooming" movements. We're all human of course...which means we'll fall into patterns we're accustom to quite easily if we reconize it. But that doesn't make for good dancing.
Oops, thanks for pointing it out, I fixed the link. I'll need to watch the clip again - I didn't think it looked like they were Lindying to Blues music. I agree it can be challenging to not get into auto-pilot mode at times - I really try not to, but it does happen once in a while. Actually, running into that as a lead a few times has made me more aware of it when I follow.
Quoted from "Whisper" I don't know enough to say which others might be definitive, but I really liked this ballrooming one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJmYcFHAN8&feature=PlayList&p=BD92BF5BAB1F109D&index=6
But anyway, the first clip demonstrates frequently something I dislike about a lot of ballrooming blues I see (and find I'm often guilty of myself...): Frequently Lindy basic rhythms are forced into the patterns, making them often look and feel very out of place with the music that does not share those rhythms. Movements often end up very rushed when dancing to slower music as the dancers will double time their Lindy rhythms to "fit", or less often the movements will be painfully too slow as they attempt to fit Lindy rhythms in time (Ti Chi Lindy passed off as Blues...ugg).
The music in this clip in particular is very stressed, tensed...the ballrooming movements in this video march (yes march) right over it most of the time rather then embellishing the moment and the tension.
I agree completely and couldn't put it better.
Personally, I'd dance like that just to alleviate the boredom and move a little more. No offense to the pro-blues people here, but it is possible to dislike dancing blues even w/out the "creepy" factor. Bores me to death, unless I'm already tired or worn out. I've found a lot of the "ideal" videos posts on these two thread to be boring to watch and boring to imagine doing. I usually dance balboa/tango/lindy to blues allowing me more mental stimulation if I don't just sit out the song altogether.
Maybe I find it boring because I'm not at a blues level where I can put my follow voice in all the closed position stuff. It certainly takes a good level of proficiency to be able to do it in balboa, so I understand. Then again, I'm not seeing the blues "pros" do much of it either. Anybody got vids of the girls having any say in the closed stuff? Or point it out to me if it's happening in these vids and I'm blind?
Oh noes. Do have any idea what a giant can of worms you just opened? Now we're going to have a blues-is-creepy thread AND a followers-having-a-say thread BOTH open at the same time AND with Zenin posting! What have you done...
Quoted from "redbean" Oh noes. Do have any idea what a giant can of worms you just opened? Now we're going to have a blues-is-creepy thread AND a followers-having-a-say thread BOTH open at the same time AND with Zenin posting! What have you done...
:-P
At least it is a topic for blues that I don't think has been discussed ad nausium.
I've been agreeing with Zenin too much this thread, time to turn the table :lol:
Quoted from "asane" Maybe I find it boring because I'm not at a blues level where I can put my follow voice in all the closed position stuff. It certainly takes a good level of proficiency to be able to do it in balboa, so I understand. Then again, I'm not seeing the blues "pros" do much of it either. Anybody got vids of the girls having any say in the closed stuff? Or point it out to me if it's happening in these vids and I'm blind?
Depends on what you mean by having a say/"follow voice". Probably not productive to get into an online discussion of what exactly is the follow's voice, but perhaps if you post a video clip of what you mean in bal, somebody can provide something analogous for blues?
I would actually think that, in general, blues dancing provides more of an opportunity for each partner to express their own personal voice than bal, because it's pretty common to see social blues dancers doing call-n-response type of solo movements.
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Lindy:
Swing Talk
- 3/22/08 12:00 am by maryx
- 33495 views
I don't intend for this request to be inflammatory. When someone I know asks about swing dancing I have about three or four clips which I think perfectly represent what I love about swing - the epitome if you will. The clips are usually famous...Page(s): < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... Next > (247 items total)
WiseFolly
Thanks, Damon. Your explanation makes sense to me, especially when you use the general (as opposed to the musical) definition of polyphonic. Describing music and dance in words is ridiculously difficult. Besides, I cannot think of a better way to say it.
I'm going to go back to being technical and nerdy for a sec...
As for polyrhythms in blues and jazz, it is just my feeling that jazz and blues historians use this term differently than classical musicians do. (I say this without having researched it enough to give a valid opinion.) When reading about jazz and blues, I have often come across the term polyrhythm. A quick google search led me to a book that gave 12/8 imposed over a 4/4 meter as an example of polyrhythm. (I don't recall if it was written as triplets in 4/4, or if it was written in 12/8 which is always played as 4/4 anyhow.) The point being, 12/8, in classical terms, is actually compound meter (not polyrhythm), but I guess I can see how it would be called a polyrhythm if it was written in 4/4. That's just a minor quibble. Jazz and Blues historians may also be referring to hemiola as polyrhythm, but I'm not sure. In any event, what I'm really trying to say is that it seems the nomenclature is different between genres, and I'm okay with that (though it usually confuses me for a second when I encounter it in that context).
Phlurg
So like, my right shoulder singing an A, my left hip a C , and my right knee an E. But god forbid my neck adds a B-flat, as that'd be inharmonious! ;)
WiseFolly
:lol: Thanks for making me lighten up! ;)
WiseFolly
It won't let me see the videos without an invitation, and for some reason, I can't get the link to join the group to work properly. :( Maybe it will work on my laptop at home.
I was going to ask about vintage clips, and it looks like there are a couple in there. If there are any more that anyone knows of, I'd love to see them.
Thanks!
dormouse
It isn't a historical term. Even "Blues dance" as a genre is a more modern term, not one which was used, as far as I can tell, with any frequency if at all during the height of the popularity of blues music.
Ballrooming and Ballroom Blues (and the other names associated with it) are all various takes on the title of that particular section in "The Spirit Moves."
My understanding seems similar to your own about the style of slow dancing done in the Savoy Ballroom. My great-aunt refers to it as "The Walk," I would imagine what she is refering to is the same "Walking the Floor" you are talking about.
As to why various dances from different parts of the country with different moves and rhythms are clustered together under the umbrella of blues dance... for the same reason why the term jazz dance or swing dance is used. Convenient group labeling of dances that use similar elements/aesthetics.
Phlurg
I think the wikipedia entry on polyrhythm isn't bad -- all references I've found suggest that the word almost always refers to something like 2 against 3, 3 against 4, 3 against 5, etc... 12/8 is essentially just 4/4 with triplet subdivisions, so it wouldn't qualify in my book.
Whether jazz/blues musicians use the term that way... shrug. That might depend on where/how they got their training. Many train at schools/conservatories sharing many classes as classical musicians, which would suggest they do, but I don't know for sure...
JSAlmonte
My question is what happened to Blues as a performance dance? There were a ton of creative, and just kick ass routines at ALHC in 2000 and 2001. I remember the 2001 ALHC blues division as especially creative, competitive and diverse. And then after that, it seems like blues as performance just dropped off the face of the earth. Routines, not just good ones, seem pretty far and few between since then.
jerry
dormouse
My guess was the further clarification of the blues division as a slow music division for any non-lindy hop dance. When West Coast, Shag, and Foxtrot started making appearances the more authentically minded seemed to abandon the division... then again this may have been the general marginalization of ALHC as the primary Lindy Hop competitive event.
National Jitterbug Championships gained popularity around that time and the Ultimate Lindy Hop Showdown ascended to be widely regarded as the best national lindy hop competition in the states.
Zenin
Which frequently sucks away their soul having a detrimental effect on their blues/jazz playing. 'Just saying.
yes.
jerry, imo there have been way MORE of them since then, not less- people just don't do it so much at alhc. it's all over the place otherwise- herrang, showdown, camp jitterbug, southwest lindyfest, rhythmic arts, not to mention the crop of purely blues events where performances and comps are huge.
JSAlmonte
I wasn't really referring to just ALHC, but in general. I guess I haven't been looking in the right places, but all the really notable routines have been listed already, i.e. Grit Grinder Girlies, Ogden and Amanda, Brenda & Shaheed. There seems to be a big gap between ALHC 2001 and Blueshout 2007, but like I said, maybe I just haven't been looking hard enough. There's plenty of examples of social dancing and some small teams, but very few straight up choreographed couple routines.
jerry
Signet
There were a few good blues routines at ALHC 2004 - including vintage blues and shag. After an (apparent?) absence in 2005, the division returned in 2006.
Here is a pretty good video from 2006, this was the second place couple:
Jeremy and Kristin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rbvwzaoQ0E
Though I would agree, there seems to have been an explosion of blues routines in the last year or two compared to what was going on for several years before that. bluesSHOUT may have been a seminal event in many ways. (although, Cheap Thrills 06 could be called a precursor to that, from everything I've heard) It is an exciting time for the blues community :)
- James
JSAlmonte
Yeah, now that you mention it I do remember thinking that blues seemed to be making a comeback at ALHC in 2006 because there were 5 very different takes on blues dancing. Although, if I recall, most of those routines were choreographed on very short notice if at all.
I just watched ALHC 2004 last week and it reminded me that the blues division was more interesting for the behind the scenes intrigue than what actually happened on the dance floor.
jerry
Signet
Certainly true by today's standards, although I like Doug & Debbie's shag routine. (nothing amazing after years of watching routines, but solidly good dancing) Although watching lindy routines from 3-4 years ago is a similar experience - today, the top dancers are so much better that they were even just a few years ago.
Looking at that another way, comparing the blues routines from 2003-04 vs 2006-07, that means in the next three years we could see a similar or larger amount of growth - which would be a great thing to have happen.
- James
dormouse
ALHC is really not what one should use as a measuring tool about blues as a dance or scene... there is no blues required in the division, you could Salsa to a Shakira song and win, for them it is nothing but tempo, and at least partially to blame for the idea that anything slow is automatically blues.
That of course is not intended to disrespect the dancers in it, just to say that the division itself should not be used as an indicator.
JSAlmonte
But that's what I'm wondering. Once you get rid of ALHC, has there been many or any notable coupled blues routines? I can't tell from Youtube. Have they been perfromed at events, but not recorded? Or is it a case where the blues community concentrated more on the social dance aspect and only recently has the performance side re-emerged again?
jerry
Beckto
Even the explanation of 'polyphonic' doesn't work. If you have to use a musical compositional device to describe the look of a body... then I would offer homophonic. Typically describing 4 voices (more than one at the very least), working to create harmony, so therefore somewhat independent, but in a unified rhythmic nature.
I still don't like it, though. Seems like too much of a stretch when there are a ton of other english words that aren't strictly musical jargon. :dunno:
Atalanta
Speaking as a longtime lover of semantics, from whom other people seek advice on issues of language, and who personally finds pleasure in clearly defined words and precise diction, I say: This "polyrhythmic vs. polyphonic vs whatever" argument is boring as all hell.
It's Damon's own definition, there's more to it than this one word you clearly have different perspectives on, and ANYWAY, the thread is requesting clips that help define the style, not a universally acceptable verbal defintion.
So, like, we get it already. More clips, please.
:roll:
David_D
Is this a question about routines or social dance?
I don't understand the relevance of routines to the character of social Blues dance. The routine blues dance doesn't seem to have very much in common with social blues dance. Even contrasting routines and social dances with the same people, the routines often don't look all that much like the social dance.
Dave
Air
I agree it's off topic for here and should stick to clips but would make for an interesting discussion for a different thread - applying musical terms to dance doesn't work but for many concepts terms don't exist.
I could see how it might be boring if one isn't musically trained. Actually this was probably the only time I was ever interested in a semantic discussion so to each their own ;)
Now on with the clips!
Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?
Beckto
Wow Atalanta...
Dr. Feelgood
Here's one of Michelle & Dexter...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z9QYVuXOz8
WiseFolly
I was able to request to join the group once I got home. Once I receive the confirmation, I will check them out!
Whisper
I don't know enough to say which others might be definitive, but I really liked this ballrooming one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJmYcFHAN8&feature=PlayList&p=BD92BF5BAB1F109D&index=6
This other one from Damon and Heidi shows them demonstrating several Blues varients with labels (from a class, not social dancing or performing), and I found it really helpful as a reminder of the distinction between them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwXbXhv0aeY
Zenin
Duh, the links are the same.
But anyway, the first clip demonstrates frequently something I dislike about a lot of ballrooming blues I see (and find I'm often guilty of myself...): Frequently Lindy basic rhythms are forced into the patterns, making them often look and feel very out of place with the music that does not share those rhythms. Movements often end up very rushed when dancing to slower music as the dancers will double time their Lindy rhythms to "fit", or less often the movements will be painfully too slow as they attempt to fit Lindy rhythms in time (Ti Chi Lindy passed off as Blues...ugg).
The music in this clip in particular is very stressed, tensed...the ballrooming movements in this video march (yes march) right over it most of the time rather then embellishing the moment and the tension.
I know personally as a lead I'll hear the tension, try to lead with it...but find since I'm technically borrowing a pattern from Lindy my follow will backlead away from the tension right into Lindy rhythms that aren't anywhere in the music ("oh, you're doing a tuck turn...I know that...it goes like this..."). It's much more a problem in open where I've less intrinsic ability to override a backlead...which I think is commonly the case and demonstrated in the video above: Their closed position dancing is much more in the music then any of the open "ballrooming" movements. We're all human of course...which means we'll fall into patterns we're accustom to quite easily if we reconize it. But that doesn't make for good dancing.
Whisper
Oops, thanks for pointing it out, I fixed the link. I'll need to watch the clip again - I didn't think it looked like they were Lindying to Blues music. I agree it can be challenging to not get into auto-pilot mode at times - I really try not to, but it does happen once in a while. Actually, running into that as a lead a few times has made me more aware of it when I follow.
asane
I agree completely and couldn't put it better.
Personally, I'd dance like that just to alleviate the boredom and move a little more. No offense to the pro-blues people here, but it is possible to dislike dancing blues even w/out the "creepy" factor. Bores me to death, unless I'm already tired or worn out. I've found a lot of the "ideal" videos posts on these two thread to be boring to watch and boring to imagine doing. I usually dance balboa/tango/lindy to blues allowing me more mental stimulation if I don't just sit out the song altogether.
Maybe I find it boring because I'm not at a blues level where I can put my follow voice in all the closed position stuff. It certainly takes a good level of proficiency to be able to do it in balboa, so I understand. Then again, I'm not seeing the blues "pros" do much of it either. Anybody got vids of the girls having any say in the closed stuff? Or point it out to me if it's happening in these vids and I'm blind?
redbean
Oh noes. Do have any idea what a giant can of worms you just opened? Now we're going to have a blues-is-creepy thread AND a followers-having-a-say thread BOTH open at the same time AND with Zenin posting! What have you done...
:-P
asane
At least it is a topic for blues that I don't think has been discussed ad nausium.
I've been agreeing with Zenin too much this thread, time to turn the table :lol:
Signet
Depends on what you mean by having a say/"follow voice". Probably not productive to get into an online discussion of what exactly is the follow's voice, but perhaps if you post a video clip of what you mean in bal, somebody can provide something analogous for blues?
I would actually think that, in general, blues dancing provides more of an opportunity for each partner to express their own personal voice than bal, because it's pretty common to see social blues dancers doing call-n-response type of solo movements.
- James
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