Hey all!
This is my first post on Yehoodi :) I've been swing dancing for three years and I absolutely love it. I consider myself to be a pretty decent dancer but my ultimate goal is to become professional (i.e. win at Beantown/similar comp and be invited to teach at camps). What would you suggest be my next steps to get up there? I currently live in the NYC area and I'm open to taking classes that are performance or advanced level. Thanks!
-Mimi
You might want to chat with Evita Arce and Michael Jagger who teach at Dance Manhattan - both used to perform with Ryan and Jenny.
My understanding is that places like Beantown and SONH invite instructors who have been highly recommended by other instructors and/or dancers with credibility. I believe you need to be an established instructor to teach there, not just a competition winner. Have you entered the ALHC?
Hop Swing in NYC has a performance group which seems to be at an advanced level - perhaps contact Yuval Hod for details.
Seeing that you're in the NYC area, why don't you look at past winners of ALHC, and/or the list of instructors at Beantown, SONH, etc., see which of them teach in the NYC area, and contact them directly for guidance. Best of luck!
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
Dance a lot, as many places as possible. Take workshops with as many great instructors as possible, take as many private lessons as possible, and social dance your butt off. Then start teaching locally. Eventually, you might get noticed and teach at a regional event. And then it goes from there. Dance camps, (SONH, Beantown, Camp Jitterbug, Herrang, Barswingona, a number of camps in France, etc) are great because you can network and get noticed, you can learn a lot, and social dance a lot. All of which help you in your goal.
In addition to taking advanced classes, you might actually want to take some beginning and intermediate classes with instructors you respect to get a sense of how they structure lessons and teach different skills, concepts, and moves.
Not all great dancers are good teachers. The best instructors think carefully about how to break down and introduce material to students, understand and anticipate the common mistakes that students make when first learning a given move, and know how to offer helpful corrective advice when students are struggling.
So, I would take some beginning and intermediate classes, and since you are presumably already familiar with the material, you can concentrate on paying attention to how the instructors are teaching (rather than trying to learn the moves). This is particularly important, since once material becomes second nature to us, we have a tendency to forget how we learned the material. For instance, do you remember how you learned to read and all that your parents or teachers did to teach you to read? My guess is no.
BTW, I am giving this advice not as a dance instructor--I'm not anywhere close to being an advanced dancer--but as someone who happens to be a professor of education.
Essentially, with a few exceptions, teaching dancing works in a cycle where people do it for a while, but eventually kind of get either burnt out on it or the market has just moved on. Folks that were major award-winning dancers less then 10 years ago maybe show up once a year at some competition. They move from competitors to becoming judges and that kind of takes them off the marquee.
There are very very very few full time dance teaching professionals that do that exclusively, even fewer over the age of say 30. Most dance teachers don't earn very much money and so while it's a living, it ain't much of one. You work mostly on the weekends, so it's a lifestyle that means you will rarely be home on a Fri/Sat night... For this reason, a lot of folks get out of it after a couple of years.
That said... In order to be hired you need to first and foremost gain notoriety. The easiest way to do that is to "win championships" and lots of them. The most-prestigious Lindy events are definitely the American Lindy Hop Championships and the US Open. Special mention for this years moreorless inaugural InternationalLindyHopChampionships. If you win awards, people will know your name/watch you on the youtubes/have a desire to hire you to teach.
Talk to folks like Dianne Eramo (sorry D, dunno the spelling) [lilbombshell] or Carl Nelson [pherrix?] who are on the rise and will likely be the next Andy Reid / Naomi Uyamas...
Get teaching experience - Cody does a good job of doing a small scale teaching thing in NYC, so does Spencer. I was teaching in Westchesterone night a week when I was in NY. Inevitably, the things that get you hired [flash n' trash] are by and large not the things you will be teaching [swingout variations].
Best advice - Be as good as you can be. Lessons. Privates. the whole 9.
NYC's top performing troupe for aerials whatnot is still probably HopSwing though it ain't what it used to be without Natalie. My favorite teachers in town are Matt Bedell & Laura Jeffers. Mickey is a real student of swing styles and techniques, but I can't say what he knows for follows and sadly, Kelly left for DC.
It's late. That's what I've got for now. Sorry it's disjointed babbling, but you get what ya pay for. Good luck to ya!
--R
I'm curious, why do you want to become a professional? And just what exactly does that mean to you?
There are lots of people who work professionally within the swing community and they do it in lots of different ways. Your specific interests, goals, and reasons can help us help you.
Lots of what's already been posted here is good information, but only if it matches with what you want.
If you want to be a "big name" and teach at the "big events", people are right, you'll need to win the "big competitions".
In addition to those already mentioned there are many others where you can get your feet wet. The Ultimate Lindy Hop Showdown is where the Big Dogs go to play and winning there really means something. Closer to your area, Boston Tea Party and Swingin' New England are two really fun events that have leveled competitions (so it's easier to get experience without having to get trounced by the pros before you are one).
And as someone else mentioned, International Lindy Hop Championships is just a drive/bus ride/train ride away from NYC down in DC this August.
Basically, look up and go to as many comps as you possibly can. Be everywhere and win when you go there.
Try this calendar to find things out:
http://www.swingoutoftown.com/listing/index.html
Winning competitions is a good way to show yourself off and get your name out into the community. Which is how people will find out they should bring you to their town.
Although it hardly means one is qualified to teach. People may want to hire you after you win a lot and show you're a dancer with skills worth learning from, but they won't hire you a second time if you suck at teaching. (And I've seen that happen before.)
Along those routes, you just need to start teaching. Try to find outlets locally and just start to learn how teaching works. As someone else mentioned, taking lower level classes again is ESSENTIAL. You aren't thinking about how to teach basics when you're learning them. Going back and looking at it from a totally different perspective will make all the difference.
From there, once you feel like you've really got some worthy teaching chops (which should probably take at least a couple of years of local teaching, btw - but that's ok because it takes a couple of years to make the competition rounds and win as much as is needed to get your name out there), you will feel good about being a teacher that gets hired outside of your local area.
After a couple of years if you're both winning competitions and teaching locally where students like you and say good things about you, it's likely the invites will come to you.
FYI, this process will likely cost you a lot of money at first. You make very little as a swing teacher. And going to events to get your name out there costs a lot of money these days. If you win, you'll make back some of what you put out, but usually not even close to all of it. And you'll definitely have to spend a lot of your time to do this. First, there's the practice time needed to get good enough to win competitions. Second, there's learning how to teach, and then of course the time to actually teach classes. And then of course there's travel time to events and taking at least one day off from work (if not two) for the actual event.
This isn't an easy process. And basically, unless you love it, and I mean can't live without it kind of love, there's really no reason to embark on the journey.
But if you do truly, really, completely love it, then you'll enjoy the journey no matter your destination, and so it will be worth it in the end. Which I guess is why I asked about your reasons and your real goals.
Oh and one more crucial thing - if you haven't already, learn the other dance role. If you're a leader, learn to follow, or if you're a follower, learn to lead. And learn how to do it well.
I've never met a teacher I thought was truly good who couldn't do the other role well enough to make it through a whole dance proficiently.
Quoted from "mousethief" Sleep with a known professional and ride their... coat tails. Then - profit!
Kalman
Step 1 - check
Step 2 - check
Still waiting on step three....
:wink:
I'm so sorry Anders left you and your dreams of Lindy Hop stardom on the side of the 95 like that. What a hike! A lonely stretch of Jersey has crushed many a dream.
This all sounds like a lot of work. Can't you just buy a certificate off the Internet ... you know, sort of like getting your PhD in ethics through that special offer in your e-mail?
To chime in as someone who is sort of in that transition between semi-pro and pro. (Thanks for the mention Riz)
I would say that on the dancing side of it, to get your name out there you need to travel a lot. Meet people all over the states (and other countries as well). Competition and performance (jump session show) are good ways to get visual recognition of your dancing and who you are. Socialize with already established instructors but try not to leech around them. They are people too (;))
This can get expensive. Trust me on that.
To improve as a dancer so that you get recognition when you travel and compete, never stop learning. Become an excellent student. This is probably the most important thing. Expand outside of your comfort zone; take classes in the concert dances (ballet, modern, contemporary), take classes in hip hop, african and tap. The better a dancer you are, the harder you should work in class.
To improve as a teacher, find an actual teacher or someone who works in education theory. Learn about learning styles, teaching methods, class planning, etc. Find your strengths and weaknesses as both a learner and a teacher and find ways to optimize your teaching strategy. People won't learn the same way you do, so being able to each effectively across a range of learning styles is important.
In addition, attend classes with your focus being on the teachers and how they teach. Watch how they interact with the class, the material and each other. Watch how they recover from a snag in the class, or address individuals.
If you are comfortable, teaching privates can really help you learn how to address peoples individual problems and learn what comes up in a one-on-one setting that can often be applied to larger classes.
There are certain non-teachers in our community that I trust to ask for dancing advice. They can look at or feel what I am doing and make clear corrections that I can understand and apply. They can also do what they are asking me to do. These, to me, are the people who could teach some day; the ones to whom people would go for advice, unsolicited.
Do you love teaching? It might be useful to find some willing students -- friends, beginners, dancers who need improvement -- to just see if you can teach them anything. See if you like it. See if you can do it. See how you deal with people who don't understand how to move their bodies in any way close to the way you understand how you move yours; then see if you can get it across to them. It doesn't have to be an official class. It could just be informal.
Follows who don't want to get wet shouldn't dance with me.
And just a gentle reminder - while you're learning, and even when you become a world famous pro, never forget your humility and floor craft. While you might be trying to strut your stuff, others are also trying to dance. On more than one occasion, I've sat with verifiable lindy/swing rockstars who, when viewing someone going all out trying to impress the masses on a crowded dance floor, have simply said "cool dancer, but what a floor hog".
I wish you every success with this - go you!!
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
Quoted from "OpeningMinds" And just a gentle reminder - while you're learning, and even when you become a world famous pro, never forget your humility and floor craft. While you might be trying to strut your stuff, others are also trying to dance. On more than one occasion, I've sat with verifiable lindy/swing rockstars who, when viewing someone going all out trying to impress the masses on a crowded dance floor, have simply said "cool dancer, but what a floor hog".
I wish you every success with this - go you!!
very true- I've also experienced more than a few times dancing near professionals who floor hog and expect ppl to move out of the way because of who they are. I have the Aris Allen scars to prove it.
Quoted from "Ferrix" To chime in as someone who is sort of in that transition between semi-pro and pro. (Thanks for the mention Riz)
I would say that on the dancing side of it, to get your name out there you need to travel a lot. Meet people all over the states (and other countries as well). Competition and performance (jump session show) are good ways to get visual recognition of your dancing and who you are. Socialize with already established instructors but try not to leech around them. They are people too (;))
As for the leeching around thing-- I totally agree- that is just creepy.
On the reverse note I feel like dancers who are trying to become pro- shouldn't try to social climb. I feel like there are several dancers who are friendly with ppl for a while and then stop being friendly because they are trying to climb the social dance strata--instead of just being friendly with everyone all of the time.
It is OK to remain friends with ppl--even if the ppl you are trying to impress do not know who they are- or do not think they are cool.
An elitist persona is never a good one. Despite good intentions- you may end up with several ppl who just do not like you and say mean things behind your back.
Thanks everyone for the advice! I've started teaching my friends and at the swing classes at my school, so I'm working on that. I've been training a lot in other forms of dance, but that's still going to be an ongoing goal. I'm going to be a senior in college, so I'll be a bit busy this next year, but once I'm out of school, I will definitely have much more time to go to classes and camps and comps. If any of you are going to Fram, I'd love to meet you and chat more about this. My name is Mimi and I'm a small Asian girl with short hair.
Quoted from "OpeningMinds" You might want to chat with Evita Arce and Michael Jagger who teach at Dance Manhattan - both used to perform with Ryan and Jenny.
My understanding is that places like Beantown and SONH invite instructors who have been highly recommended by other instructors and/or dancers with credibility. I believe you need to be an established instructor to teach there, not just a competition winner. Have you entered the ALHC?
Hop Swing in NYC has a performance group which seems to be at an advanced level - perhaps contact Yuval Hod for details.
Seeing that you're in the NYC area, why don't you look at past winners of ALHC, and/or the list of instructors at Beantown, SONH, etc., see which of them teach in the NYC area, and contact them directly for guidance. Best of luck!
P.S. aren't Evita and Mike going to be touring in Japan for Swing! (the musical) soon? I'd love to train from them but that may be a problem if they're not here...What do you guys think of Carol Fraser's teaching by the way? Would she be good for helping me get further?
There are very very very few full time dance teaching professionals that do that exclusively, even fewer over the age of say 30. Most dance teachers don't earn very much money and so while it's a living, it ain't much of one. You work mostly on the weekends, so it's a lifestyle that means you will rarely be home on a Fri/Sat night... For this reason, a lot of folks get out of it after a couple of years.
Yup, and if you go pro you will make enough money to pay the rent on a NYC apartment (with your 6 other roommates)! Seriously though, if going pro to you means teaching hobbyists for the love of dance, go for it. If you are thinking of becoming a world famous choreographer, find a different dance style and buy a lot of lottery tickets because the odds are about the same!
Ah, this thread reminds me of the old days of yehoodi!
It's important to be aware that being a "big name" in the lindy hop community and making a living as a dance instructor are NOT the same thing.
You don't need any more experience, awards, or credibility than what you already have to make a great living as a dance instructor. You need strong business and marketing skills. If you have an entrepreneurial, go-getting kind of spirit, this can be a wonderful way to earn a living through something you love.
All the suggestions about taking classes and private lessons, entering competitions, traveling etc, are great ways to improve your skills and meet people... and MAYBE build up some kind of a rep. You may even get some rewards and teaching gigs along the way.
My advice is, if you want to make a living off of dance, get serious with the business side of things. If you want lindy hop fame... don't quit your day job :)
Quoted from "CityGroover" ... but my ultimate goal is to become professional (i.e. win at Beantown/similar comp and be invited to teach at camps). ...
Mimi, when you say professional, do you mean a full-time dance instructor? Because the vast majority of instructors at Beantown, SONH, etc. have day jobs.
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
Well - as far as just getting to the point of teaching, definitely learn both lead and follow of whatever dances you want to be teaching.
As far as keeping busy a couple of nights a week - There ain't nothing stopping you from doing it but yourself.
--R
Swing46 is often looking for people (or backups) to teach their intro to swing class and you don't have to be a "pro" to do it. It could be a good starting point to get your feet wet in teaching and you get a free night of live music. Since most people taking the class will probably never become serious dancers, you aren't likely to ruin anyone's dance future by messing up ;) From my experience, people of a wide variety of dance skill have taught there.
Quoted from "CityGroover" Of course I'd have a day job. That's already in the works. By teaching professionally, I mean teaching two or three nights a week.
Still, don't ignore the business and marketing side of things. Unless you are planning to be an employee of a larger dance studio where other people will handle the marketing, renting space, accounting, taxes, etc.
Especially if you are going to teach multiple nights a week. Figure another night to handle promotion and doing the books (maybe more depending on the amount of effort you are putting into marketing and promotion), if you are on your own. As JoJo stated above, you are not just going to be teaching dance, you are starting a business, even if it's just a small one. Don't ignore the business side of things.
Personally, I think teaching 2 or 3 nights a week is a lot. Especially if you are also planning to have time to dance for pleasure, do occasional weekends, maintain a professional career of some sort, and maybe have a life outside of dance (realtionships, family, etc). Teaching dance and dancing for fun are very different (at least for me). Teaching is work. It's work that I love, but it's still work.
Asane had a good suggestion for a place to start getting more exposure. Pick-up lessons are a good place ot get your feet wet with being able to get people out on the floor fast, in one lesson. It's a good skill to have as, I think, that the first instinct of many new instructors is to overteach. It's hard to find the balance between what students need to get out oon the floor and "dance" vs. what makes them so bored they walk away. Pick-up lessons will help with that. This may be the only hour of dance instruction these folks ever take. How do you get them dancing and having fun, without boggin them down in details that they'll never dance long enough to put to use....AND, still give enough of those bigger concpets that you will. hopefully, hook a some into coming back next week?
A few suggestions:
Get to know yourself and your dancing. A common complaint about dance teachers is that they do a move, but they cannot explain (well) how they actually do the move. The better you know how your body moves and responds to your partner, the better you will be at explaining and teaching the dance.
Know (or discover) what your strengths are, and teach to them.
Have a reason to teach, beyond "It would be cool and fun". I'm not suggesting that you don't have this already, or will not find it in time, but the fun and the coolness will wear off pretty fast as the work it takes to practice, compete, prep-routines and classes, travel, teach, etc. mounts. You will need to have some other reason to draw on to keep you going.
How to get professional?
CityGroover
Hey all!
This is my first post on Yehoodi :) I've been swing dancing for three years and I absolutely love it. I consider myself to be a pretty decent dancer but my ultimate goal is to become professional (i.e. win at Beantown/similar comp and be invited to teach at camps). What would you suggest be my next steps to get up there? I currently live in the NYC area and I'm open to taking classes that are performance or advanced level. Thanks!
-Mimi
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billy bakelite
Have you registered for Swing Out New Hampshire yet? Come out, take classes, dance, and chat with the instructors.
CityGroover
Sadly, I was considering it but I have work that I absolutely can't take off during that week. I have a few friends who are going though.
OpeningMinds
You might want to chat with Evita Arce and Michael Jagger who teach at Dance Manhattan - both used to perform with Ryan and Jenny.
My understanding is that places like Beantown and SONH invite instructors who have been highly recommended by other instructors and/or dancers with credibility. I believe you need to be an established instructor to teach there, not just a competition winner. Have you entered the ALHC?
Hop Swing in NYC has a performance group which seems to be at an advanced level - perhaps contact Yuval Hod for details.
Seeing that you're in the NYC area, why don't you look at past winners of ALHC, and/or the list of instructors at Beantown, SONH, etc., see which of them teach in the NYC area, and contact them directly for guidance. Best of luck!
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
fiddletree
Dance a lot, as many places as possible. Take workshops with as many great instructors as possible, take as many private lessons as possible, and social dance your butt off. Then start teaching locally. Eventually, you might get noticed and teach at a regional event. And then it goes from there. Dance camps, (SONH, Beantown, Camp Jitterbug, Herrang, Barswingona, a number of camps in France, etc) are great because you can network and get noticed, you can learn a lot, and social dance a lot. All of which help you in your goal.
catlike
In addition to taking advanced classes, you might actually want to take some beginning and intermediate classes with instructors you respect to get a sense of how they structure lessons and teach different skills, concepts, and moves.
Not all great dancers are good teachers. The best instructors think carefully about how to break down and introduce material to students, understand and anticipate the common mistakes that students make when first learning a given move, and know how to offer helpful corrective advice when students are struggling.
So, I would take some beginning and intermediate classes, and since you are presumably already familiar with the material, you can concentrate on paying attention to how the instructors are teaching (rather than trying to learn the moves). This is particularly important, since once material becomes second nature to us, we have a tendency to forget how we learned the material. For instance, do you remember how you learned to read and all that your parents or teachers did to teach you to read? My guess is no.
BTW, I am giving this advice not as a dance instructor--I'm not anywhere close to being an advanced dancer--but as someone who happens to be a professor of education.
TheRiz
Hmpf. I have lots of thoughts on this.
Essentially, with a few exceptions, teaching dancing works in a cycle where people do it for a while, but eventually kind of get either burnt out on it or the market has just moved on. Folks that were major award-winning dancers less then 10 years ago maybe show up once a year at some competition. They move from competitors to becoming judges and that kind of takes them off the marquee.
There are very very very few full time dance teaching professionals that do that exclusively, even fewer over the age of say 30. Most dance teachers don't earn very much money and so while it's a living, it ain't much of one. You work mostly on the weekends, so it's a lifestyle that means you will rarely be home on a Fri/Sat night... For this reason, a lot of folks get out of it after a couple of years.
That said... In order to be hired you need to first and foremost gain notoriety. The easiest way to do that is to "win championships" and lots of them. The most-prestigious Lindy events are definitely the American Lindy Hop Championships and the US Open. Special mention for this years moreorless inaugural InternationalLindyHopChampionships. If you win awards, people will know your name/watch you on the youtubes/have a desire to hire you to teach.
Talk to folks like Dianne Eramo (sorry D, dunno the spelling) [lilbombshell] or Carl Nelson [pherrix?] who are on the rise and will likely be the next Andy Reid / Naomi Uyamas...
Get teaching experience - Cody does a good job of doing a small scale teaching thing in NYC, so does Spencer. I was teaching in Westchesterone night a week when I was in NY. Inevitably, the things that get you hired [flash n' trash] are by and large not the things you will be teaching [swingout variations].
Best advice - Be as good as you can be. Lessons. Privates. the whole 9.
NYC's top performing troupe for aerials whatnot is still probably HopSwing though it ain't what it used to be without Natalie. My favorite teachers in town are Matt Bedell & Laura Jeffers. Mickey is a real student of swing styles and techniques, but I can't say what he knows for follows and sadly, Kelly left for DC.
It's late. That's what I've got for now. Sorry it's disjointed babbling, but you get what ya pay for. Good luck to ya!
--R
mouth
CityGroover,
I'm curious, why do you want to become a professional? And just what exactly does that mean to you?
There are lots of people who work professionally within the swing community and they do it in lots of different ways. Your specific interests, goals, and reasons can help us help you.
Lots of what's already been posted here is good information, but only if it matches with what you want.
If you want to be a "big name" and teach at the "big events", people are right, you'll need to win the "big competitions".
In addition to those already mentioned there are many others where you can get your feet wet. The Ultimate Lindy Hop Showdown is where the Big Dogs go to play and winning there really means something. Closer to your area, Boston Tea Party and Swingin' New England are two really fun events that have leveled competitions (so it's easier to get experience without having to get trounced by the pros before you are one).
And as someone else mentioned, International Lindy Hop Championships is just a drive/bus ride/train ride away from NYC down in DC this August.
Basically, look up and go to as many comps as you possibly can. Be everywhere and win when you go there.
Try this calendar to find things out:
http://www.swingoutoftown.com/listing/index.html
Winning competitions is a good way to show yourself off and get your name out into the community. Which is how people will find out they should bring you to their town.
Although it hardly means one is qualified to teach. People may want to hire you after you win a lot and show you're a dancer with skills worth learning from, but they won't hire you a second time if you suck at teaching. (And I've seen that happen before.)
Along those routes, you just need to start teaching. Try to find outlets locally and just start to learn how teaching works. As someone else mentioned, taking lower level classes again is ESSENTIAL. You aren't thinking about how to teach basics when you're learning them. Going back and looking at it from a totally different perspective will make all the difference.
From there, once you feel like you've really got some worthy teaching chops (which should probably take at least a couple of years of local teaching, btw - but that's ok because it takes a couple of years to make the competition rounds and win as much as is needed to get your name out there), you will feel good about being a teacher that gets hired outside of your local area.
After a couple of years if you're both winning competitions and teaching locally where students like you and say good things about you, it's likely the invites will come to you.
FYI, this process will likely cost you a lot of money at first. You make very little as a swing teacher. And going to events to get your name out there costs a lot of money these days. If you win, you'll make back some of what you put out, but usually not even close to all of it. And you'll definitely have to spend a lot of your time to do this. First, there's the practice time needed to get good enough to win competitions. Second, there's learning how to teach, and then of course the time to actually teach classes. And then of course there's travel time to events and taking at least one day off from work (if not two) for the actual event.
This isn't an easy process. And basically, unless you love it, and I mean can't live without it kind of love, there's really no reason to embark on the journey.
But if you do truly, really, completely love it, then you'll enjoy the journey no matter your destination, and so it will be worth it in the end. Which I guess is why I asked about your reasons and your real goals.
Oh and one more crucial thing - if you haven't already, learn the other dance role. If you're a leader, learn to follow, or if you're a follower, learn to lead. And learn how to do it well.
I've never met a teacher I thought was truly good who couldn't do the other role well enough to make it through a whole dance proficiently.
Anyway, good luck.
Wexie
Good advice from all.
mousethief
Sleep with a known professional and ride their... coat tails. Then - profit!
Kalman
mouth
Step 1 - check
Step 2 - check
Still waiting on step three....
:wink:
Ryan M
I'm so sorry Anders left you and your dreams of Lindy Hop stardom on the side of the 95 like that. What a hike! A lonely stretch of Jersey has crushed many a dream.
Toon Town Dave
This all sounds like a lot of work. Can't you just buy a certificate off the Internet ... you know, sort of like getting your PhD in ethics through that special offer in your e-mail?
Ferrix
To chime in as someone who is sort of in that transition between semi-pro and pro. (Thanks for the mention Riz)
I would say that on the dancing side of it, to get your name out there you need to travel a lot. Meet people all over the states (and other countries as well). Competition and performance (jump session show) are good ways to get visual recognition of your dancing and who you are. Socialize with already established instructors but try not to leech around them. They are people too (;))
This can get expensive. Trust me on that.
To improve as a dancer so that you get recognition when you travel and compete, never stop learning. Become an excellent student. This is probably the most important thing. Expand outside of your comfort zone; take classes in the concert dances (ballet, modern, contemporary), take classes in hip hop, african and tap. The better a dancer you are, the harder you should work in class.
To improve as a teacher, find an actual teacher or someone who works in education theory. Learn about learning styles, teaching methods, class planning, etc. Find your strengths and weaknesses as both a learner and a teacher and find ways to optimize your teaching strategy. People won't learn the same way you do, so being able to each effectively across a range of learning styles is important.
In addition, attend classes with your focus being on the teachers and how they teach. Watch how they interact with the class, the material and each other. Watch how they recover from a snag in the class, or address individuals.
If you are comfortable, teaching privates can really help you learn how to address peoples individual problems and learn what comes up in a one-on-one setting that can often be applied to larger classes.
My chip in.
mightythor
There are certain non-teachers in our community that I trust to ask for dancing advice. They can look at or feel what I am doing and make clear corrections that I can understand and apply. They can also do what they are asking me to do. These, to me, are the people who could teach some day; the ones to whom people would go for advice, unsolicited.
Do you love teaching? It might be useful to find some willing students -- friends, beginners, dancers who need improvement -- to just see if you can teach them anything. See if you like it. See if you can do it. See how you deal with people who don't understand how to move their bodies in any way close to the way you understand how you move yours; then see if you can get it across to them. It doesn't have to be an official class. It could just be informal.
Follows who don't want to get wet shouldn't dance with me.
OpeningMinds
And just a gentle reminder - while you're learning, and even when you become a world famous pro, never forget your humility and floor craft. While you might be trying to strut your stuff, others are also trying to dance. On more than one occasion, I've sat with verifiable lindy/swing rockstars who, when viewing someone going all out trying to impress the masses on a crowded dance floor, have simply said "cool dancer, but what a floor hog".
I wish you every success with this - go you!!
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
pill_popper
Woman, you best be ready to pay to jet your own ass all around this world learning how to teach before I pay to jet your ass into my town teach.
you just got to listen to the music, 'cause it's talkin' to you man! -frankie
http://www.zazzle.com/anarchyforpresident
SHORTYJOY
very true- I've also experienced more than a few times dancing near professionals who floor hog and expect ppl to move out of the way because of who they are. I have the Aris Allen scars to prove it.
SHORTYJOY
As for the leeching around thing-- I totally agree- that is just creepy.
On the reverse note I feel like dancers who are trying to become pro- shouldn't try to social climb. I feel like there are several dancers who are friendly with ppl for a while and then stop being friendly because they are trying to climb the social dance strata--instead of just being friendly with everyone all of the time.
It is OK to remain friends with ppl--even if the ppl you are trying to impress do not know who they are- or do not think they are cool.
An elitist persona is never a good one. Despite good intentions- you may end up with several ppl who just do not like you and say mean things behind your back.
CityGroover
Thanks everyone for the advice! I've started teaching my friends and at the swing classes at my school, so I'm working on that. I've been training a lot in other forms of dance, but that's still going to be an ongoing goal. I'm going to be a senior in college, so I'll be a bit busy this next year, but once I'm out of school, I will definitely have much more time to go to classes and camps and comps. If any of you are going to Fram, I'd love to meet you and chat more about this. My name is Mimi and I'm a small Asian girl with short hair.
CityGroover
P.S. aren't Evita and Mike going to be touring in Japan for Swing! (the musical) soon? I'd love to train from them but that may be a problem if they're not here...What do you guys think of Carol Fraser's teaching by the way? Would she be good for helping me get further?
Marcelo
Funny, that describes more than a few folks out there.
And 3 years? Add another 3. Then we'll talk. :)
equivoque
Yup, and if you go pro you will make enough money to pay the rent on a NYC apartment (with your 6 other roommates)! Seriously though, if going pro to you means teaching hobbyists for the love of dance, go for it. If you are thinking of becoming a world famous choreographer, find a different dance style and buy a lot of lottery tickets because the odds are about the same!
Ah, this thread reminds me of the old days of yehoodi!
jojo
It's important to be aware that being a "big name" in the lindy hop community and making a living as a dance instructor are NOT the same thing.
You don't need any more experience, awards, or credibility than what you already have to make a great living as a dance instructor. You need strong business and marketing skills. If you have an entrepreneurial, go-getting kind of spirit, this can be a wonderful way to earn a living through something you love.
All the suggestions about taking classes and private lessons, entering competitions, traveling etc, are great ways to improve your skills and meet people... and MAYBE build up some kind of a rep. You may even get some rewards and teaching gigs along the way.
My advice is, if you want to make a living off of dance, get serious with the business side of things. If you want lindy hop fame... don't quit your day job :)
jojo
should have read that more closely, sorry! well i will keep my above post anyway...
OpeningMinds
Mimi, when you say professional, do you mean a full-time dance instructor? Because the vast majority of instructors at Beantown, SONH, etc. have day jobs.
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
CityGroover
Of course I'd have a day job. That's already in the works. By teaching professionally, I mean teaching two or three nights a week.
TheRiz
Well - as far as just getting to the point of teaching, definitely learn both lead and follow of whatever dances you want to be teaching.
As far as keeping busy a couple of nights a week - There ain't nothing stopping you from doing it but yourself.
--R
asane
Swing46 is often looking for people (or backups) to teach their intro to swing class and you don't have to be a "pro" to do it. It could be a good starting point to get your feet wet in teaching and you get a free night of live music. Since most people taking the class will probably never become serious dancers, you aren't likely to ruin anyone's dance future by messing up ;) From my experience, people of a wide variety of dance skill have taught there.
Ogden
Still, don't ignore the business and marketing side of things. Unless you are planning to be an employee of a larger dance studio where other people will handle the marketing, renting space, accounting, taxes, etc.
Especially if you are going to teach multiple nights a week. Figure another night to handle promotion and doing the books (maybe more depending on the amount of effort you are putting into marketing and promotion), if you are on your own. As JoJo stated above, you are not just going to be teaching dance, you are starting a business, even if it's just a small one. Don't ignore the business side of things.
Personally, I think teaching 2 or 3 nights a week is a lot. Especially if you are also planning to have time to dance for pleasure, do occasional weekends, maintain a professional career of some sort, and maybe have a life outside of dance (realtionships, family, etc). Teaching dance and dancing for fun are very different (at least for me). Teaching is work. It's work that I love, but it's still work.
Asane had a good suggestion for a place to start getting more exposure. Pick-up lessons are a good place ot get your feet wet with being able to get people out on the floor fast, in one lesson. It's a good skill to have as, I think, that the first instinct of many new instructors is to overteach. It's hard to find the balance between what students need to get out oon the floor and "dance" vs. what makes them so bored they walk away. Pick-up lessons will help with that. This may be the only hour of dance instruction these folks ever take. How do you get them dancing and having fun, without boggin them down in details that they'll never dance long enough to put to use....AND, still give enough of those bigger concpets that you will. hopefully, hook a some into coming back next week?
A few suggestions:
Get to know yourself and your dancing. A common complaint about dance teachers is that they do a move, but they cannot explain (well) how they actually do the move. The better you know how your body moves and responds to your partner, the better you will be at explaining and teaching the dance.
Know (or discover) what your strengths are, and teach to them.
Have a reason to teach, beyond "It would be cool and fun". I'm not suggesting that you don't have this already, or will not find it in time, but the fun and the coolness will wear off pretty fast as the work it takes to practice, compete, prep-routines and classes, travel, teach, etc. mounts. You will need to have some other reason to draw on to keep you going.
podrat
Well said.
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