If your goal is not to make a living through dance, you might want to examine why you're setting being a top flight instructor as a personal goal.

Why do you want to be a top flight instructor?

If you see it as an indication of the level of skill you have achieved at instructing, than I'd say it's a decent goal to have, though I'd suggest setting many intermediate goals for yourself between here and there.

If you believe that you have something to offer on that scale which is unique, not being offered at present, that's another positive motivation.

The reason why I'm asking is because I've seen people who want to be 'national instructors,' or 'champion dancers' who are not doing it as a marker of a level of achievement, or to provide a service, but rather are doing to attain social status, a top spot in the social hierarchy. Obviously, since I don't know you, I have no idea if that applies to you. IMO, chasing social status is a recipe for all sorts of misery.

In any case, best of luck

Quoted from "OpeningMinds"

Quoted from "Addict"
If your goal is not to make a living through dance, you might want to examine why you're setting being a top flight instructor as a personal goal. Why do you want to be a top flight instructor?

:oops: I read this and thought "what has flying got to do with being a pro Lindy dancer?" :spineyes:

What ... you haven't seen flying Lindy Hop? ;)

Winning at a competition takes time, discipline, and the willingness to lose your sanity, your money and your luggage as you bounce around to each competition in the USA and Europe. Take private lessons with judges to find out what they look for, take private lessons with established pros to steal their moves, get a routine and practice it until it's like breathing should be.

If teaching is a goal, I agree with jojo and Ogden that you shouldn't ignore the business side of things and take time to promote yourself in every way possible. Students are much more likely to sing your praises to fellow dancers if you convince them to take a private lesson with you, and make them feel as if that lesson helped them a lot.

Lastly, learn the language. By that I mean, of course, learn the language of any country that you are going to teach in... as well as, learn the language of the dance that you wish to teach. In Singapore, while it is English you will be speaking, a Swing-out from NYC looks an awful lot like what is called a Lindy Turn there. A Lindy Circle in NYC looks an awful lot like a Shag Pivot in the Carolinas. Be able to communicate with the people you want to teach using their language and they will relate to you and take more lessons. Use your own language and expect them to translate your teaching, you'll find that many people are still trying to figure out what it is you said long after you've finished the lesson.

Good luck, and I'll be at Fram tonight if you'd like to chat. DDD.

I had tried, or maybe a better word was pondered, to make a living as a dance instructor about 5 or 6 years ago. I was teaching some, DJing some, and working on a lot of events.

I realized that a lot of people could teach and DJ as good and better than I could. I just felt like it wasn't going to work out that way so what I did have that few others did was experience in graphic design and advertising, which I was able to parlay into a lot of freelance gigs. I started doing skins for websites and t-shirt artwork just to get let in for free, and eventually coined phrases like 'Showdown', 'Black and Tan Fantasy', and 'Music City Mini Camp' in addition to all the pixels and vector art, moved from Chicago to Minneapolis to Nashville to L.A. through the freelance work I had and the connections I'd made.

Now that I've moved on and changed my career path I still do some swing-related freelance, most recently for the forthcoming San Francisco Lindy Exchange and the album released last summer by Jonathan Stout and his Campus Five entitled Moppin and Boppin . I still do all the graphics and branding identity for Showdown and there is talk of resurrecting MC2.

Why I decided to move on with my career was I decided that freelance wasn't for me. I wanted more stability and less whoring myself out for next month's rent money, constantly pounding the pavement for more clientele. It's not a career for everyone but if you're cut out for it and can make it work...more power to you.

Wow Mimi, thank you for sparking such a great thread on Yehoodi. I'm really excited for you and I really enjoyed reading what everyone else wrote.

I agree most with Jojo and Ogden. Like Jojo said, being a Dance Teacher means being a good buisness person because you have to advertise yourself and manage a client list. And as Ogden said, you need to know how you feel about the dance and what you want to communicate to others.

The information you have and how you communicate is why students choose you over some one else. Some teachers may be technically amazing and great at getting people to do "difficult" moves while others may be inspiring, entertaining and good at getting their students to continue their own development. Eventually, students choose their teachers because they enjoy the instruction.

I know for me, studying with Ryan and Jenny really turned into a family like relationship. Michael and I still travel to London to work with/for them.

I also think it is sooooooo important to have as many people as possible exposed to Lindy Hop and swing era dances. Even if you are not as experienced, helping others get their basics down so they can go social dance is what keeps this art alive. So thank you Mimi for teaching your friends at school and getting them to dance.

In time, if you still want this, and you are still doing all the things people have already suggested, it will just happen to you. I've been dancing for almost 10 years and I did NOT intend to be a dance teacher or a "dancer". I kept dancing because I just loved it. It was my favorite thing to do. And how's that saying go . . . . . you are what you eat . . . . no, there's another one . . . . . . .

You are what you do.

Michael and I are away until late Sept. doing Swing, but when I get back, I'd love to talk more.

See you soon.

Evita

:roll: </derail><plezk?thanx>

Quoted from "DancinDavio"
There is no pro dance teacher with less experience than our next president (143 days in government IIRC, but not positive) and most have 10 times the experience and they are teaching dancing, not making crucial decisions on social policy, war, international trade, and the economy that affect the whole world.

I don't know what you are talking about. Foreign policy was covered somewhere between learning a Swingout and Tandem Chalreston when I was taking beginner leassons.

Domestic policy was a pre-requisite for Balboa.

my younger brother has just started teaching swing classes in san antonio. how cool is that? im so proud :)

I would not attend any class that would have me as an instructor.

I disagree with your assessment of the prestige of ULHS vs ALHC.

Maybe it's a regional difference since I mostly travel to events in the west but I've barely heard much buzz about ALHC outside of yehoodi discussions in the last few years. ALHC titles don't seem to get the same emphasis they used to in workshop instructor bios for events I attend. Instead links to ULHS clips on youtube appear.

ULHS has changed locations a few times. Given the past locations, I think that speaks more to the priorities of the organizer and the desired atmosphere than the quality or prestige of the event. One could counter that ALHC is in the same facility as trade shows.

You can not say ULHS is not both successful or popular, especially considering it's relative isolation from most of the Lindy Hop population.

ALHC really does need to get out the can of brass polish to stay relevant.

Alright. Given that prestige is a matter of opinion, and only opinion. We can certainly agree to disagree.

DDD

Quoted from "Toon Town Dave"
I disagree with your assessment of the prestige of ULHS vs ALHC. Maybe it's a regional difference since I mostly travel to events in the west but I've barely heard much buzz about ALHC outside of yehoodi discussions in the last few years. ALHC titles don't seem to get the same emphasis they used to in workshop instructor bios for events I attend. Instead links to ULHS clips on youtube appear. ULHS has changed locations a few times. Given the past locations, I think that speaks more to the priorities of the organizer and the desired atmosphere than the quality or prestige of the event. One could counter that ALHC is in the same facility as trade shows. You can not say ULHS is not both successful or popular, especially considering it's relative isolation from most of the Lindy Hop population. ALHC really does need to get out the can of brass polish to stay relevant.

I'm no expert on this subject--but hey, when has lack of expertise stopped anyone from posting on Yehoodi :) --but I agree with those who say that ULHS is more influential in the lindy scene these days. It definitely has the buzz and perhaps the highest level of dancing.

To me, though, ULHS and ALHC seem like two different beasts, both with advantages and disadvantages. ALHC seems more "corporate" and the result of modeling a lindy hop competition after ballroom competitions. It is more structured--with more rules and regulations (what the heck is "lindy content" and who decides?)--and seems like it places a higher priority on technique and dancing cleanly. It has more divisions and categories.

ULHS seems more like a bottom-up, community-based competition, and as a result has a lot of street cred. It is less structured and has few rules. The judging seems more subjective and holistic (though not without standards). Perhaps there is more of an appreciation for the intangible qualities that make a performance great and exciting.

Both have merit. ALHC offers more divisions and opportunities for individuals of different abilities and ages to compete. It's more structured and standardized (which has both pros and cons). ULHS is more exuberant, has a higher concentration of top dancers, and does more to celebrate lindy hop as a street dance.

Anyways, those are my impressions from watching clips from both and reading various dance sites. Looking at the winners list of over the years, it does seem as though ALHC has become less of a national competition than it was in the past. Most of the dancers placing these days come from East of the Mississipi with some scattered folks from out west.

I wonder whether, with the emergence of ULHS, it's become too much and too expensive for individuals to go to all 3 big national lindy hop competitions. So, now, most of the top national dancers go to ULHS in the middle of the country, and then people split up regionally with the western people go to Camp Hollywood and the eastern people to ALHC. Some people still go to all three but fewer these days.

Yeah, stating that nothing new's been brought to ULHS in the last 7 years is hardly inflammatory. :roll:

Quoted from "Double Down Dave"
By the way, take a look at ULHS 2002 - 2007, and when it is available, 2008. Tell me if the dancing has changed all that much. Then take a look at ALHC 1998 - 2007, and when it becomes available 2008. Tell me if the dancing has changed all that much. I'm not saying this to be inflammatory, I just like to go where it is more likely I'll see something new. DDD

I don t think that s a very fair comparison. In 1998, much of the modern generation of Lindy Hoppers was just getting into dancing at that point. 90 of the dancing from the 98 ALHC was just plain bad, so of course, everything you ll see by 2008 will be light years ahead of that.

By 2002, most seasoned competitors had refined their technique and were starting to develop their own personalities. So between '02 thru now, there s less difference in terms of technical skill, but a wider array of styles as opposed to very generic Savoy or Hollywood looks that dominated the scene before then.

Plus you can't look at anything after 2002 and not admit events' influences on each other. Our community just isn't that big, and Youtube has made it even smaller. For example, after ULHS and Hellzapoppin, ALHC started adopting the jam format in some of its contests, and even did the Champions divisions to live music last year. Heck, even the competitors in the J & J finals went against the format and competed in jams.

Quoted from "Double Down Dave"
A good assessment to be sure. In my personal preference column I actually like the rules set down by any competition (ALHC, Camp Hollywood, ULHS, etc.) as they are there to challenge competitors to do something great inside the allotted framework. The competition that has no rules is subject to the whim of just a few judges giving credit to those they believe should hold that title, so I find that there are many people in the country, even the world, who watch those competitions... see who wins... and endeavors to be, or look like those people that win. As a result, the competition stagnates into "who can look the most like the people who won last year." More people are dancing, true, but the people who set the bar (the people who won the competition in the first place) are never challenged as no judge I have seen yet to date would place the copy over the original.

That has been a criticism of all dance competitions, not just Lindy, since they ve been having them, but to date, no one really has been able to address it. The best idea so far has been to rotate judges to bring in different view points to challenge competitors.

Outside of that I m not sure there is any way to avoid it because of two main issues which are beyond the control of competitions or their promoters. One is just human nature. People see something that excites them and it s natural for them to try to replicate it in some fashion whether its Sylvia Skylar s swivels or Skye Humphries . . . er. . . what Skye does.

Sometimes this is dismissed as herd mentality, but a lot of that has to do with the second factor: Priorities. It takes a lot of time and effort to come up with a good, never mind original, performance piece. The number of dancers that have that luxury or desire are few and far between. As a result most competitors, especially those that are up and coming, just aim for good because I think few people want to waste their time and money preparing and traveling to a comp to perform something that is truly creatively risky, and probably not get anything tangible from it.

Minnies' Moochers legendary routine got them 3rd place at ALHC in 1999. Mad Dog came in 5th in 2002. One of the most talked about routines from ILHC by Stefan & Bethany came in 4th. Of course you can say that none of the dancers in those examples really cared about placements, but its rare to find someone willing to dance just to express something.

Theoretically the only place they could do that is some sort of performance oriented event. However, nobody has really been able to figure out a way to successfully pull off something like that without probably losing a chunk of money. The closest out there is probably The Jump Session Show, but that s part of the madness that is Camp Jitterbug, plus it seems to have a more historical/educational bent. There s also the nightly meetings at Herrang, or cabaret nights at events like SONH, but those are more like talent shows for the event attendees; ways to blow off steam rather than putting something out there in a deliberately artistic fashion.

Too avant garde? Maybe, but I think its a worthy idea to explore a bit more than we have in the Lindy scene until now. But for this discussion, I think comparing comps in terms of creative originality is a futile task especially when you consider that that originality tends to come from the same people competing in many of those different contests.

Jerry

Quoted from "DJLarkin"
Jerry is a smart man, and speaks the truth.

Speaking of creatively risky. :P