Hey folks... this seems like a great little community you have here... lots of smart, interesting, fun-loving people... and I hope you'll consider this admittedly obnoxious question... because it's offered sincerely. So, I started dating this girl about a month and a half ago. I knew from…
Originally posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 (3 years ago)
Your position is really common, you just articulate yourself better and don't just clam up and act surly and/or plaintive. If after thoughtful evaluation, you really don't have time, or if you are both really better off doing your own thing, then your answer is easy. If there's a way you can participate that makes you both happy, go for it.
If on the other hand, you have time and reason to say, learn enough for the occasional intimate dance to make your lover smile... It's hard to accept vulnerability-- to admit ignorance in order to learn, or to make the first big gesture in a relationship. But as you've pointed out, the thing about doing something for someone else, really for someone else, is that it isn't about you. It's about not about you being comfortable, or looking cool, or feeling competent. It's not about what others think of you. It's about focusing on this amazing person to the extent that their happiness and your togetherness eclipses any of that incidental junk.
Originally posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 (3 years ago)
Try it for her, but keep in mind that means trying the whole experience. Don't assume that you'll just dance with her, and definitely don't think that she'll only dance with you when you're there. Don't be surprised if the first thing you hear after she introduces you to yet another friend is "nice to meet you! Want to dance?"
So, try it. Take a few lessons, try dancing with others in those classes first. You're certainly allowed to ask your GF for a dance or two (but by all means resist the temptation to ask her to teach you. That way lies madness.). If you like it, great! If you really don't, or if you find that you just can't bear to dance with people outside your comfort zone, well, at least you gave it a fair chance. If you start getting jealous because she's dancing with everyone... well, that's a sign of trouble you'll have to work out. However it goes, be honest with yourself and with her about the experience.
Originally posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "deliciousblues" It's about not about you being comfortable, or looking cool, or feeling competent. It's not about what others think of you. It's about focusing on this amazing person to the extent that their happiness and your togetherness eclipses any of that incidental junk.
Originally posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 (3 years ago)
My husband has learned some swing dances, and I personally enjoyed taking some private lessons with him. I found there were things I was also able to learn along with him, and I wasn't impatient at his pace at all. So everyone really is different when it comes to together or separate.
One thing that he discovered though... he is a musician and very connected with music. He really disliked dancing east coast as it's a 6 count dance to 8 count music. It drove him nuts on a musical level. However, he picked up lindy and flew with it because he preferred having the 8 count to match the music. So you might talk with someone about the differences in the dances.
Originally posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "Big Mike" Don't be surprised if the first thing you hear after she introduces you to yet another friend is "nice to meet you! Want to dance?"
And if this makes you uncomfortable, the best way to handle it is to say to this new person, "No, thank you." and smile. And leave it at that. Well, you can fit a, "Nice to meet you, too..." in wherever you want.
Originally posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "Trazy" I would recommend trying some sort of fusion, like tango, swing and polka. This deadly combination has served me well in the lady department.
Originally posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "rikomatic"
Quoted from "deliciousblues" It's about not about you being comfortable, or looking cool, or feeling competent. It's not about what others think of you. It's about focusing on this amazing person to the extent that their happiness and your togetherness eclipses any of that incidental junk.
I have to say, this is a very lovely sentiment.
I echo Rik ... my soul smiled and cuddled itself when I read this.
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
Originally posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 (3 years ago)
A few have said, don't let her teach you, or don't ask her to teach you. I think it completely depends on the couple. This is coming from the perspective of someone how has only dated non-swing dancers (although many did thinks like contra dancing or clogging). Many of those guys wanted me to teach them, and I was very happy to do that. But then again, I am also a swing dance teacher, and haven't lived anywhere with decent instructors for a long time (since high school, ack!!!) , so there wasn't any other alternative, like you have in SF.
Him asking me to teach, me asking if he wants me to teach him, or whatever other combo has never caused a problem in a relationship for me, personally. It is really important for me to be able to teach other things in a relationship, so this is just part of that. I also tend to be with thick-skinned people- if one of you tends to get over-emotional, or can't take criticism, or is impatient, maybe her teaching isn't such a good idea. But if not, it could definitely work. My boyfriend now actually only likes when I (and not others) teach him things- he feels more comfortable to make mistakes and try new things, dance-wise, with me than with near-strangers.
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
Originally posted Friday, March 27, 2009 (3 years ago)
Thanks again for the encouragement, advice, etc. It's definitely helped me sort out some of my conflict. Here's what I'm thinking based on what I've read/considered...
-I haven't actually been out with my girl to see where she dances, what it's like -the vibe, etc. I know that one of her dance nights is more intense/dance-centric (where they have lessons beforehand, etc.) and the other night is at a different place that's more of a bar with a minority of dancers to people just listening to music and hanging out.
So, before I come to any resolution I should at least go out (probably to the latter venue) to see what I'm missing and if there's any immediate attraction to what's going down.
My initial sense is that dancing is probably not going to be "my thing". I mean... I'll absolutely try to stay open to it's charms... I just think my participation will most likely be on this level: I just want to be able to give my lady a dance now and then so she feels like I am a good sport and can share something fun together. Like, if her plans on a consequential night (like New Year's Eve or something) revolve around dancing, I'd like to at least be able to manage a dance or two with her and enjoy myself.
But, week to week, I think I could have fun over the course of a couple hours "holding up the bar" with other lounge-y types... knowing that I'll be the one to take the gorgeous creature home for some horizontal dance (in which I've proven myself to be a competent and careful lead).
I mean, I haven't had direct exposure to potential jealousy-making situations... but, I'm not too worried about it. Looking at it the other way... inviting me into the dance scene could be just as problematic for her -were I to get really into it and be dancing with other pretty ladies all the time.
-She has a good friend who has already offered to give me some private lessons. That seems like a good, safe way to proceed should I decide to give it a go. But, here's my question about that: should she be there with me or not? Like, can I learn much from another dude just teaching me moves, or will I need her or another partner there (or should I expect that the friend is just going to take the follow position and talk me through it?)
-If, as I mentioned above, I determine only to invest enough time to be able to dance with my sweetheart periodically... and dance for the sake of complimenting our romance and the excuse of publicly sanctioned physical connection... is there a kind of dance you think I should focus on? Like, as Arielalala referred to the different styles... does it make any sense for me to bother learning something that seems fast and complicated like the Lindy Hop, or should I learn a style suited for slower, closer dancing (where we can purposefully explore all the taboos like boob grazing, boner-poking, crotch rubbing, etc.)? So like, maybe I can just be her partner for slower songs and let the other chumps get all sweaty?
Quote deliciousblues wrote:
It's about not about you being comfortable, or looking cool, or feeling competent. It's not about what others think of you. It's about focusing on this amazing person to the extent that their happiness and your togetherness eclipses any of that incidental junk.
I have to say, this is a very lovely sentiment.
I think this is sweet sentiment too...
...and, everyone can be a little different in this respect... but, in a relatively new relationship, you can't escape the push-pull of autonomy vs. sacrifice and concession. I think most would agree that there is a fine line between sweetness, thoughtfulness, swoon-worthy demonstrations of love, etc.... and, passion-numbing passivity, weakness of identity, over-eagerness to please, availability.... all those things that can make an interested girl... not so much.
To answer the question... we've talked about it a bit. (update: we even talked about it tonight... while I was in the midst of composing this.... of course, I tried to keep the conversation light and I didn't tell her I was exploring all of these ideas on a public message board....doh!)
I think we communicate pretty well, and we're open about stuff. I've let her know some of my concerns while also trying to just be playfully resistant to dancing.... both because I hadn't made my mind up about it, but also for the larger reason that it just seemed too early to make such a gesture. I wish I could view it more as a casual activity... but, it seems much more than that.. it's an identity thing... like, I think she might use the word "dancer" as one descriptive for herself. It's part of who she is.
Here's an indirect example I've witnessed: my friend's sister was dating this guy for awhile. This guy was an active member of a total oldster banjo playing group that his parents had gotten him involved in. So, after awhile the sister started taking banjo lessons and joined up with the group. To visualize: a sea of 50-60 white-haired, octo-and septuagenarians playing some banjo piece in unison... with my friend's 30 year-old sister and her boyfriend among them. Is that cool, or weird? I dunno. I just know that after the sister bought a 3,000 custom banjo they broke up and she married somebody else not too many years later. She's no longer in the banjo band.
I mean, I think it's sweet when people are doing things for each other they wouldn't otherwise do when intoxicated by infatuation or more... but, there's a line where it becomes kinda goofy or embarrassing, right? Am I just being dumb for thinking about all this?
Okay... I'll stop now. I'm resolved so far to:
-check out one of the dance nights
-probably take a few basic private lessons from the friend
-chill out about it all.
I'm still considering all of what you fine people have offered, and feel welcome to include anything else I should know or chew on. I'll keep you posted on how it's shaking out.
And, even if I don't become a dancer, I'm sure I'll still need to lurk here to be familiar with the secrets of my sweetheart's dance cult.
Originally posted Friday, March 27, 2009 (3 years ago)
Shoji, you have some great insight, and some excellent understanding of the dynamics of dance and relationships. Your hesitancy is valid, IMHO, and also a tad over-cautious. Just go - hang out. At the moment you're in the land of theory ...
And when it comes to learning to dance, learn Lindy (my 2c) ... you can dance it slow, you can dance it fast. But you have to crawl and walk before you can run! And IMHO Lindy seems to have the common link to all the other dances ... so no matter what's going on with the music, if you can lindy, you'll be able to dance.
And here's a thing: if you learning to dance turns your girl off you, take you any bet it's more to do with other things than just the dancing ...
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
Originally posted Friday, March 27, 2009 (3 years ago)
This thread seems about 5 dance and 95 finessing relational power dynamics...
It's really easy to get caught up in your head. But even if a relationship is about staying 50/50, someone still needs to move first to find out how deep it goes. In a good partnership, you give something of yourself, and get back something that you can only get from the other person. That's how you know you're with the right person-- when you're both giving, but never ending up short.
And that can be deep, or as simple as just learning something about yourself or what you like from getting out of your head, getting onto the floor.
Originally posted Friday, March 27, 2009 (3 years ago)
Luckily dance shoes won't set you back three grand.
Things to consider:
When you do go to a dance with her you're in her world and as much as she likes you, she'll get annoyed quickly if you become a boat anchor (intentional or not). While you may be happy hanging out at the bar while she runs the room, you may need to give her more assurance of that then you'd expect to need. If she wants to run around introducing you (showing you off), that's fine, but if she's more the butterfly type at dances make sure she knows she's completely free to fly off for an hour or more at a time.
If you decide to try dancing, be ready for her to have a "dance crush" for a night or a year. Invariably they'll be some guy she'll end up dancing with that makes her feel so crazy good that she'll be all flushed and weak knead afterwords. It's enough to intimidate even the most confident of guys. Be ready for it, be honestly happy for her enjoying herself, and stay confident by knowing you look far better in your vintage garb then he does in his t-shirt and jeans. ;-)
Not adopting her scene at least to some degree could well be an issue in the long run. For most that identify themselves as a "dancer", this isn't just a hobby it's our primary (often only) social group. By not dancing or at least attending dances as a lounger, you're indirectly rejecting her friends.
Learning with or without I feel is really up to how it works out. If it's causing tension and headed into a bad place, cut your losses quickly and learn w/o her.
Slow dancing is harder for most then typical Lindy tempos. -Unless you're just standing there swaying for 3.5 mins like a high school prom.
I do like the idea someone suggested of trying something together that she does not yet know. Ideally it'd be something practical in the swing scene. For example if she doesn't yet know Balboa it could be a great way to put you both on even footing. -You may have an advantage here, as she'll have to unlearn/relearn much of Lindy to learn Balboa. Socially it'd be a good feather in your cap: You can't swing a dead cat around SF without hitting a dozen good Lindy leads, but good Balboa leads are rare and prized everywhere. It's also much more tempo friendly of a dance, which can allow you to dance to even very up-tempo songs w/o breaking much of a sweat: A great dance to keep you looking sharp and dry in your vintage attire!!
Originally posted Friday, March 27, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "deliciousblues" This thread seems about 5 dance and 95 finessing relational power dynamics...
yeah... sorry... didn't mean to turn this into shoji's psychotherapy thread (just shoji's "kick my ass into action" thread).
So, I emailed the friend to set up private lessons... and I have to say, despite all my other reservations and objections... I do feel excited about the possibility of being able to move my body in some structured way relative to the music that I've loved for a long time. The more youtube Lindy clips I watch the more I feel jealous for that ability -that expression and connection with the music. I'm sure that it's easy for discussion here and on the podcasts, etc. to be drawn toward the embarrassing, the faux-pas, the stupid things that newbies/jerks do... and exposure to all that stuff does increase the intimidation factor... but, even though it may not exactly be expressed as frequently as the negative... I still get a sense for the joy it must be to bug out to really fast, jumping, live music. I'm sure the technical stuff is fun to worry over, but just that act of un-self-consciously, intuitively busting moves has gotta be transcendent. Right?
I certainly sense that joy in my girl when I catch her running and sliding or spinning around the kitchen in her socks.
Originally posted Friday, March 27, 2009 (3 years ago)
Make sure that the friend that is showing you some stuff not only goes over where your feet and such go, but also gives you a nice foundation of how to lead.. the touch and guidance to partner dance well, regardless of what dance you're doing together.
Originally posted Friday, March 27, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "shoji" I'm sure the technical stuff is fun to worry over, but just that act of un-self-consciously, intuitively busting moves has gotta be transcendent. Right?
Pretty much, yep.
Keep in mind when you poll a group like Yehoodi you've got a much higher concentration of dance geeks then you'll find in a typical venue, and a much higher percentage of venting on top of that. We'll breath fire here about tiny details that 95 of people at a dance wouldn't even notice.
Back in Real Life the dance scene is way more mellow, laid back. There really are only three hard and fast rules as a guy at a dance venue:
1) Don't hurt (don't yank, twist arms, etc)
2) Don't be stinky
3) Don't be creepy
Easy and obvious right? Beyond that it's all up to you how you want to partake. Welcome!
Originally posted Saturday, March 28, 2009 (3 years ago)
As soon as I read the topic of this thread I had an immediate response. I made an honest attempt at reading through all the responses and considered all the different directions everyone took with this and found it very interesting. But I think I will stick with my original knee-jerk response.
I can't say it has never happened (apparently it happened to some who have responded here) but generally speaking unless YOU want to learn how to swing dance because YOU are interested in swing dancing and swing music, and grow to have a passion for it for YOURSELF, it "ain't gonna happen." The dancing part I mean. Doesn't mean you can't have a dancer/non-dancer relationship, kids, and grandkids . . . many have. Its just something the both of you would have to accept.
I am reminded of the many times I have seen significant others (usually guys) literally drug, or baited, or otherwise coereced into learnig to Lindy Hop, and it almost never results in the victim (however willingly they "go along with it" in the beginning) becoming what most would call a "swing dancer."
The same thing can be said for guys I have known who have made attempts at dancing for the sole purpose of "getting some tail."
You are either a dancer or you aren't. If your only motivation to dance is to please another person or "get some tail" you would only be someone posing as a dancer, and probably not a very good one at that. You have to do it because YOU want to do it for yourself.
But hey, if the exposure you get to it through your present girlfriend ever does light that spark in YOU for YOUR OWN sake and enjoyment, like me you may find if to be the greatest thing you ever did in your life.
And if you are lucky, like me you may someday have a bunch of dance pals half your age you can call your friends and enjoy dancing with you.
Originally posted Saturday, March 28, 2009 (3 years ago)
True, but people often don't know that they would love dancing. When I started dancing, I did so because of a cute guy, but generally was the person who couldn't be persuaded to dance under ANY circumstances and proclaimed dancing of all types stupid, boring, and lame. And I hated swing music.
Now, 8.5 years later, I can't imagine my life without dancing (even though I am on a bit of a hiatus due to grad school and location), and am definitely a 'dancer', even though a decade ago everyone who knew me probably would have laughed hysterically to think of that possibility. And I love (good) swing music now. It has also helped me become a better musician, even though I play a totally different type of music. Gave me a deeper understanding of music and rhythm, in general.
So, yeah, true- don't dance unless you want to. But no one is a dancer until they decide to be one, it ain't something you are born into. Nor do you have to be 'a dancer' to dance.
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
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So, do I learn to dance for the girl I'm dating... or what?
Hey folks... this seems like a great little community you have here... lots of smart, interesting, fun-loving people... and I hope you'll consider this admittedly obnoxious question... because it's offered sincerely. So, I started dating this girl about a month and a half ago. I knew from…
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Your position is really common, you just articulate yourself better and don't just clam up and act surly and/or plaintive. If after thoughtful evaluation, you really don't have time, or if you are both really better off doing your own thing, then your answer is easy. If there's a way you can participate that makes you both happy, go for it.
If on the other hand, you have time and reason to say, learn enough for the occasional intimate dance to make your lover smile... It's hard to accept vulnerability-- to admit ignorance in order to learn, or to make the first big gesture in a relationship. But as you've pointed out, the thing about doing something for someone else, really for someone else, is that it isn't about you. It's about not about you being comfortable, or looking cool, or feeling competent. It's not about what others think of you. It's about focusing on this amazing person to the extent that their happiness and your togetherness eclipses any of that incidental junk.
Try it for her, but keep in mind that means trying the whole experience. Don't assume that you'll just dance with her, and definitely don't think that she'll only dance with you when you're there. Don't be surprised if the first thing you hear after she introduces you to yet another friend is "nice to meet you! Want to dance?"
So, try it. Take a few lessons, try dancing with others in those classes first. You're certainly allowed to ask your GF for a dance or two (but by all means resist the temptation to ask her to teach you. That way lies madness.). If you like it, great! If you really don't, or if you find that you just can't bear to dance with people outside your comfort zone, well, at least you gave it a fair chance. If you start getting jealous because she's dancing with everyone... well, that's a sign of trouble you'll have to work out. However it goes, be honest with yourself and with her about the experience.
MB
I have to say, this is a very lovely sentiment.
Why It Took Me 13 Years to Learn the Big Apple • My hiphop crew Freeplay performing at the Dance-a-Rama (video).
My husband has learned some swing dances, and I personally enjoyed taking some private lessons with him. I found there were things I was also able to learn along with him, and I wasn't impatient at his pace at all. So everyone really is different when it comes to together or separate.
One thing that he discovered though... he is a musician and very connected with music. He really disliked dancing east coast as it's a 6 count dance to 8 count music. It drove him nuts on a musical level. However, he picked up lindy and flew with it because he preferred having the 8 count to match the music. So you might talk with someone about the differences in the dances.
And if this makes you uncomfortable, the best way to handle it is to say to this new person, "No, thank you." and smile. And leave it at that. Well, you can fit a, "Nice to meet you, too..." in wherever you want.
I would recommend trying some sort of fusion, like tango, swing and polka. This deadly combination has served me well in the lady department.
Clearly. :roll:
I echo Rik ... my soul smiled and cuddled itself when I read this.
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
A few have said, don't let her teach you, or don't ask her to teach you. I think it completely depends on the couple. This is coming from the perspective of someone how has only dated non-swing dancers (although many did thinks like contra dancing or clogging). Many of those guys wanted me to teach them, and I was very happy to do that. But then again, I am also a swing dance teacher, and haven't lived anywhere with decent instructors for a long time (since high school, ack!!!) , so there wasn't any other alternative, like you have in SF.
Him asking me to teach, me asking if he wants me to teach him, or whatever other combo has never caused a problem in a relationship for me, personally. It is really important for me to be able to teach other things in a relationship, so this is just part of that. I also tend to be with thick-skinned people- if one of you tends to get over-emotional, or can't take criticism, or is impatient, maybe her teaching isn't such a good idea. But if not, it could definitely work. My boyfriend now actually only likes when I (and not others) teach him things- he feels more comfortable to make mistakes and try new things, dance-wise, with me than with near-strangers.
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
Thanks again for the encouragement, advice, etc. It's definitely helped me sort out some of my conflict. Here's what I'm thinking based on what I've read/considered...
-I haven't actually been out with my girl to see where she dances, what it's like -the vibe, etc. I know that one of her dance nights is more intense/dance-centric (where they have lessons beforehand, etc.) and the other night is at a different place that's more of a bar with a minority of dancers to people just listening to music and hanging out.
So, before I come to any resolution I should at least go out (probably to the latter venue) to see what I'm missing and if there's any immediate attraction to what's going down.
My initial sense is that dancing is probably not going to be "my thing". I mean... I'll absolutely try to stay open to it's charms... I just think my participation will most likely be on this level: I just want to be able to give my lady a dance now and then so she feels like I am a good sport and can share something fun together. Like, if her plans on a consequential night (like New Year's Eve or something) revolve around dancing, I'd like to at least be able to manage a dance or two with her and enjoy myself.
But, week to week, I think I could have fun over the course of a couple hours "holding up the bar" with other lounge-y types... knowing that I'll be the one to take the gorgeous creature home for some horizontal dance (in which I've proven myself to be a competent and careful lead).
I mean, I haven't had direct exposure to potential jealousy-making situations... but, I'm not too worried about it. Looking at it the other way... inviting me into the dance scene could be just as problematic for her -were I to get really into it and be dancing with other pretty ladies all the time.
-She has a good friend who has already offered to give me some private lessons. That seems like a good, safe way to proceed should I decide to give it a go. But, here's my question about that: should she be there with me or not? Like, can I learn much from another dude just teaching me moves, or will I need her or another partner there (or should I expect that the friend is just going to take the follow position and talk me through it?)
-If, as I mentioned above, I determine only to invest enough time to be able to dance with my sweetheart periodically... and dance for the sake of complimenting our romance and the excuse of publicly sanctioned physical connection... is there a kind of dance you think I should focus on? Like, as Arielalala referred to the different styles... does it make any sense for me to bother learning something that seems fast and complicated like the Lindy Hop, or should I learn a style suited for slower, closer dancing (where we can purposefully explore all the taboos like boob grazing, boner-poking, crotch rubbing, etc.)? So like, maybe I can just be her partner for slower songs and let the other chumps get all sweaty?
I think this is sweet sentiment too...
...and, everyone can be a little different in this respect... but, in a relatively new relationship, you can't escape the push-pull of autonomy vs. sacrifice and concession. I think most would agree that there is a fine line between sweetness, thoughtfulness, swoon-worthy demonstrations of love, etc.... and, passion-numbing passivity, weakness of identity, over-eagerness to please, availability.... all those things that can make an interested girl... not so much.
To answer the question... we've talked about it a bit. (update: we even talked about it tonight... while I was in the midst of composing this.... of course, I tried to keep the conversation light and I didn't tell her I was exploring all of these ideas on a public message board....doh!)
I think we communicate pretty well, and we're open about stuff. I've let her know some of my concerns while also trying to just be playfully resistant to dancing.... both because I hadn't made my mind up about it, but also for the larger reason that it just seemed too early to make such a gesture. I wish I could view it more as a casual activity... but, it seems much more than that.. it's an identity thing... like, I think she might use the word "dancer" as one descriptive for herself. It's part of who she is.
Here's an indirect example I've witnessed: my friend's sister was dating this guy for awhile. This guy was an active member of a total oldster banjo playing group that his parents had gotten him involved in. So, after awhile the sister started taking banjo lessons and joined up with the group. To visualize: a sea of 50-60 white-haired, octo-and septuagenarians playing some banjo piece in unison... with my friend's 30 year-old sister and her boyfriend among them. Is that cool, or weird? I dunno. I just know that after the sister bought a 3,000 custom banjo they broke up and she married somebody else not too many years later. She's no longer in the banjo band.
I mean, I think it's sweet when people are doing things for each other they wouldn't otherwise do when intoxicated by infatuation or more... but, there's a line where it becomes kinda goofy or embarrassing, right? Am I just being dumb for thinking about all this?
Okay... I'll stop now. I'm resolved so far to:
-check out one of the dance nights -probably take a few basic private lessons from the friend -chill out about it all.
I'm still considering all of what you fine people have offered, and feel welcome to include anything else I should know or chew on. I'll keep you posted on how it's shaking out.
And, even if I don't become a dancer, I'm sure I'll still need to lurk here to be familiar with the secrets of my sweetheart's dance cult.
There's only one question, here: do you want to get tail? If the answer is "Yes," then learn how to dance.
Shoji, you have some great insight, and some excellent understanding of the dynamics of dance and relationships. Your hesitancy is valid, IMHO, and also a tad over-cautious. Just go - hang out. At the moment you're in the land of theory ...
And when it comes to learning to dance, learn Lindy (my 2c) ... you can dance it slow, you can dance it fast. But you have to crawl and walk before you can run! And IMHO Lindy seems to have the common link to all the other dances ... so no matter what's going on with the music, if you can lindy, you'll be able to dance.
And here's a thing: if you learning to dance turns your girl off you, take you any bet it's more to do with other things than just the dancing ...
"Change your thoughts, and you change your world" - Norman Vincent Peale.
Apparently he didn't need dancing to "get tail".
This thread seems about 5 dance and 95 finessing relational power dynamics...
It's really easy to get caught up in your head. But even if a relationship is about staying 50/50, someone still needs to move first to find out how deep it goes. In a good partnership, you give something of yourself, and get back something that you can only get from the other person. That's how you know you're with the right person-- when you're both giving, but never ending up short.
And that can be deep, or as simple as just learning something about yourself or what you like from getting out of your head, getting onto the floor.
Luckily dance shoes won't set you back three grand.
Things to consider:
When you do go to a dance with her you're in her world and as much as she likes you, she'll get annoyed quickly if you become a boat anchor (intentional or not). While you may be happy hanging out at the bar while she runs the room, you may need to give her more assurance of that then you'd expect to need. If she wants to run around introducing you (showing you off), that's fine, but if she's more the butterfly type at dances make sure she knows she's completely free to fly off for an hour or more at a time.
If you decide to try dancing, be ready for her to have a "dance crush" for a night or a year. Invariably they'll be some guy she'll end up dancing with that makes her feel so crazy good that she'll be all flushed and weak knead afterwords. It's enough to intimidate even the most confident of guys. Be ready for it, be honestly happy for her enjoying herself, and stay confident by knowing you look far better in your vintage garb then he does in his t-shirt and jeans. ;-)
Not adopting her scene at least to some degree could well be an issue in the long run. For most that identify themselves as a "dancer", this isn't just a hobby it's our primary (often only) social group. By not dancing or at least attending dances as a lounger, you're indirectly rejecting her friends.
Learning with or without I feel is really up to how it works out. If it's causing tension and headed into a bad place, cut your losses quickly and learn w/o her.
Slow dancing is harder for most then typical Lindy tempos. -Unless you're just standing there swaying for 3.5 mins like a high school prom.
I do like the idea someone suggested of trying something together that she does not yet know. Ideally it'd be something practical in the swing scene. For example if she doesn't yet know Balboa it could be a great way to put you both on even footing. -You may have an advantage here, as she'll have to unlearn/relearn much of Lindy to learn Balboa. Socially it'd be a good feather in your cap: You can't swing a dead cat around SF without hitting a dozen good Lindy leads, but good Balboa leads are rare and prized everywhere. It's also much more tempo friendly of a dance, which can allow you to dance to even very up-tempo songs w/o breaking much of a sweat: A great dance to keep you looking sharp and dry in your vintage attire!!
Are you my relationship doppelganger?
For future relationships, though...
yeah... sorry... didn't mean to turn this into shoji's psychotherapy thread (just shoji's "kick my ass into action" thread).
So, I emailed the friend to set up private lessons... and I have to say, despite all my other reservations and objections... I do feel excited about the possibility of being able to move my body in some structured way relative to the music that I've loved for a long time. The more youtube Lindy clips I watch the more I feel jealous for that ability -that expression and connection with the music. I'm sure that it's easy for discussion here and on the podcasts, etc. to be drawn toward the embarrassing, the faux-pas, the stupid things that newbies/jerks do... and exposure to all that stuff does increase the intimidation factor... but, even though it may not exactly be expressed as frequently as the negative... I still get a sense for the joy it must be to bug out to really fast, jumping, live music. I'm sure the technical stuff is fun to worry over, but just that act of un-self-consciously, intuitively busting moves has gotta be transcendent. Right?
I certainly sense that joy in my girl when I catch her running and sliding or spinning around the kitchen in her socks.
I'll let you know how it all goes.
Make sure that the friend that is showing you some stuff not only goes over where your feet and such go, but also gives you a nice foundation of how to lead.. the touch and guidance to partner dance well, regardless of what dance you're doing together.
Pretty much, yep.
Keep in mind when you poll a group like Yehoodi you've got a much higher concentration of dance geeks then you'll find in a typical venue, and a much higher percentage of venting on top of that. We'll breath fire here about tiny details that 95 of people at a dance wouldn't even notice.
Back in Real Life the dance scene is way more mellow, laid back. There really are only three hard and fast rules as a guy at a dance venue:
1) Don't hurt (don't yank, twist arms, etc) 2) Don't be stinky 3) Don't be creepy
Easy and obvious right? Beyond that it's all up to you how you want to partake. Welcome!
Shoji, I just want to say that your girl is very lucky to have met you.
As soon as I read the topic of this thread I had an immediate response. I made an honest attempt at reading through all the responses and considered all the different directions everyone took with this and found it very interesting. But I think I will stick with my original knee-jerk response.
I can't say it has never happened (apparently it happened to some who have responded here) but generally speaking unless YOU want to learn how to swing dance because YOU are interested in swing dancing and swing music, and grow to have a passion for it for YOURSELF, it "ain't gonna happen." The dancing part I mean. Doesn't mean you can't have a dancer/non-dancer relationship, kids, and grandkids . . . many have. Its just something the both of you would have to accept.
I am reminded of the many times I have seen significant others (usually guys) literally drug, or baited, or otherwise coereced into learnig to Lindy Hop, and it almost never results in the victim (however willingly they "go along with it" in the beginning) becoming what most would call a "swing dancer."
The same thing can be said for guys I have known who have made attempts at dancing for the sole purpose of "getting some tail."
You are either a dancer or you aren't. If your only motivation to dance is to please another person or "get some tail" you would only be someone posing as a dancer, and probably not a very good one at that. You have to do it because YOU want to do it for yourself.
But hey, if the exposure you get to it through your present girlfriend ever does light that spark in YOU for YOUR OWN sake and enjoyment, like me you may find if to be the greatest thing you ever did in your life.
And if you are lucky, like me you may someday have a bunch of dance pals half your age you can call your friends and enjoy dancing with you.
the george behind www.kclindyhop.org
True, but people often don't know that they would love dancing. When I started dancing, I did so because of a cute guy, but generally was the person who couldn't be persuaded to dance under ANY circumstances and proclaimed dancing of all types stupid, boring, and lame. And I hated swing music.
Now, 8.5 years later, I can't imagine my life without dancing (even though I am on a bit of a hiatus due to grad school and location), and am definitely a 'dancer', even though a decade ago everyone who knew me probably would have laughed hysterically to think of that possibility. And I love (good) swing music now. It has also helped me become a better musician, even though I play a totally different type of music. Gave me a deeper understanding of music and rhythm, in general.
So, yeah, true- don't dance unless you want to. But no one is a dancer until they decide to be one, it ain't something you are born into. Nor do you have to be 'a dancer' to dance.
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
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