I am curious to know the definition of a proffessional lindy hop dancer. and the swing talk forum can be so dull. I have been going through different pages and I am more interested in current opinion on the subject.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Usually the dance community adds something like "primary source of income".
i.e. although I make a bit of money each year teaching dance, it is only supplementary income and I don't live on it. It doesn't even pay for my dancing habit. :) In the few places I have seen definitions (such as "Pro vs. Open" competitions) I have never fit the definition of a "pro".
I think a fair line I have seen drawn is whether over half your income is from dance and dance related activities, although this might actually rule out a few people who really are pros, but work full or part-time jobs that are more lucrative than the dance.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
I wouldn't call it a defining factor in the "necessary and sufficient characteristics" model of defining a word, but...
The majority of lindy dancers/instructors regarded by the lindy community as professional have at least one or two "top three" awards in major competitions like ALHC or ULHC.
Perhaps you can call that something along the lines of an institutional definition, like Dickie and Danto's Artworld model for defining the word "art" - If other artists consider you an artist, you're an artist. If other artists consider the snow shovels you bought at the hardware store and mounted on pedestals "art" then they are art. Otherwise you are not an artist and what you do isn't art.
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having" - V
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
If the dancer's primary source of income is dance related, and that income is enough to support the person (shelter, food, travel, clothing, etc), I would say they are a professional dancer.
This does NOT always mean they are good dancers themselves, but that they are good at marketing themselves. There are plenty of 'local' dancers around the world who make their living off of teaching dance classes, but don't travel elsewhere to dance or teach. Technically they are professional dancers. Then, there are the fabulous dancers that we all know and love who teach all over the world and generally kick a s. Some of them have other employment that makes up most of their income, others don't. I guess that is where the line gets fuzzy.
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
What is that saying? It is in the eye of the beholder? Exchanges I have went to in the past require tryouts for advanced classes. Personally I think this is crap for two reasons. First off, Frankie Manning himself commented on how having masters level classes for lindy hop is a bit ridiculous. This dance is a creative dance. Yes, there are basic connection issues and basic steps you need to learn, but if you can intertwine all that with awesome musicality then you will be considered an awesome dancer to others.
Secondly, all the people I saw get turned down in the advanced tryouts were good solid dancers and the ones that were pretty blah or even no good got picked. So, I think to be considered an expert or professional to people of the lindy society merely depends on the style of lindy that is popular today. If you look at lindy competitions from the 90s and those of the 2000ish area today, there is a distinct difference is style. If you are still dancing like they did in the 90s, chances are you won't get very far in a national competition because they are looking for a particular style.
I agree with the person that commented saying one that markets themself very well will be considered a professional in the lindy world. Or any profession for that matter.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
I feel that I encounter many opinions about professional dancers on this board that are unfair, as in the attractive professionals thread. I would have agreed with many of these views say ten years ago, but the world of dance is ever changing and lindy is fast becoming more widespread and accepted in broader dance competitions and media venues.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "zsa" I feel that I encounter many opinions about professional dancers on this board that are unfair, as in the attractive professionals thread. I would have agreed with many of these views say ten years ago, but the world of dance is ever changing and lindy is fast becoming more widespread and accepted in broader dance competitions and media venues.
I disagree with you on the "unfairness" of our characterization of ballroom professionals. This is Yehoodi, the website for the hardcore hep-cat swinger. For our definition of lindy hop professionals, I suggest you go on you-tube and search for the ILHC pro division, and pretty much any ULHS footage. Notice that they do not move like the ballroom professionals dancing lindyhop. This is not because the lindy hop dancers are not pros - it is because the ballroom professionals are generally ghastly lindy hoppers.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "redshoes" Notice that they do not move like the ballroom professionals dancing lindy hop. This is not because the lindy hop dancers are not pros - it is because the ballroom professionals are generally ghastly lindy hoppers.
Sweeping generalization much?
Just a note- in most dance worlds---ballroom or otherwise, one can simply "declare" themselves a pro. . .does this mean they are good? certainly not.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Fiddletree and Roxi both made points that boil down to:
"Just cause you're good don't mean you're a pro; and just cause you're a pro don't mean you're good."
I think, strictly speaking, the economic answers are more to the point.
If by "professional" one simply means "very good" and the question becomes: what defines a "very good" dancer? . . . well that's a whole nuther can of worms.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "roxi"
Quoted from "redshoes" Notice that they do not move like the ballroom professionals dancing lindy hop. This is not because the lindy hop dancers are not pros - it is because the ballroom professionals are generally ghastly lindy hoppers.
Sweeping generalization much?
Just a note- in most dance worlds---ballroom or otherwise, one can simply "declare" themselves a pro. . .does this mean they are good? certainly not.
In the Lindy world, you can't just declare yourself a pro. If you do, people will laugh at you. Did you even bother to look at the examples of pro lindy I suggested? The muscle movement necessary for good lindy is very different than ballroom movement. I made my "sweeping overgeneralization" based on watching very good ballroom pros attempt to lindy on national tv. They danced, but to call it lindy is a stretch. Please educate yourself before calling me out again.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "redshoes"
Quoted from "zsa" I feel that I encounter many opinions about professional dancers on this board that are unfair, as in the attractive professionals thread. I would have agreed with many of these views say ten years ago, but the world of dance is ever changing and lindy is fast becoming more widespread and accepted in broader dance competitions and media venues.
I disagree with you on the "unfairness" of our characterization of ballroom professionals. This is Yehoodi, the website for the hardcore hep-cat swinger. For our definition of lindy hop professionals, I suggest you go on you-tube and search for the ILHC pro division, and pretty much any ULHS footage. Notice that they do not move like the ballroom professionals dancing lindyhop. This is not because the lindy hop dancers are not pros - it is because the ballroom professionals are generally ghastly lindy hoppers.
I'm not using the term "ballroom professional". I take my lessons from dance professionals. A dance professional can teach more than one style. I have been to spectate at closed lindy hop events, similar to the ones you mentioned. In my opinion, I have seen that skill level matched at NDCA and USA Dance events.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Again, I suggest that you seek out footage of ILHC and UHLS. Not something "similar to", but those events. Because the only way you'll ever see lindy danced at that level is if those people decide to show up at an "open" event. And if you still can't see the difference, there's nothing I can do or say that will explain it to you.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
since this is somewhat of a Lindy and Swing Forum, i believe that the discussion of the differences between ballroom and Lindy instructors is not entirely pertinent.
However, Professional Ballroom Dancers are generally considered those at the highest level of competition, such as the US Championships in Orlando this year, and who charge the big bucks for a lesson with them.
Similarly, Professional Lindy Hoppers are those who often compete at the highest levels of competitions, such as ILHC, or ULHS, and ALHC, and travel around the nation and the world to teach Lindy Hop.
The bottom line is that these people are payed large amounts of money for their teaching, and people bring them in to teach from around the world.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
I agree with Redshoes. Being a 'dance professional' does absolutely NOT make you a good lindy hopper.
Pretty much all the lindy hoppers I know who teach other kinds of dance are lindy hoppers first, and then teach the other dances to bring in the cash. I have never encountered anyone who is primarily a ballroom (or any other non-lindy dance) dancer who I would consider remotely qualified to teach lindy hop.
Zsa, please PLEASE go watch the videos mentioned by redshoes and tell us what you think.
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
I also agree with the sentiments here. Check out the lindy footage that's available from ULHS and ILHC. It's on youtube, and very easy to find.
Note that we're not saying those dance pros from other styles are bad dancers; they're just not good lindy hoppers. Lindy hop is difficult for any ballroom or latin dancer to master; it's movement, posture, etc. are completely at odds with what dancers of most other styles learn. It takes a lot of time and effort to really learn passable lindy, and frankly most ballroom pros don't bother. They may know the basic steps, but they don't know the how or the why to make those steps work. Unfortunately, it's not something they can fake, and it's not something they can get through by virtue of their other fantastic dance technique.
MB
PS - It goes both ways. Even the best lindy hoppers can't hope to fake it through a latin or ballroom dance unless they've invested the time to learn the very different style. If you search around here a bit, you'll find a few threads about just how hard that is. Rewarding, certainly, but hard .
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "zsa" I feel that I encounter many opinions about professional dancers on this board that are unfair, as in the attractive professionals thread. I would have agreed with many of these views say ten years ago, but the world of dance is ever changing and lindy is fast becoming more widespread and accepted in broader dance competitions and media venues.
Well I am more curious to know what opinions are out there. Now Zsa I know that you feel some are unfair but that is not what we are talking about.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Ok lets take these two for example. OK so here goes:
1. In the Lindy world can they declare themselves PRO?
2. If they do will people laugh at them?
3. Would they be allowed to compete as amateurs at a lindyhop event? And if so then which one?
4. Do you think they would move like BALLROOMERS doing lindyHOP?
And I do believe that a major costume change would be in order. You know some of these latin fashions are horribly unattractive.
Originally posted Tuesday, May 5, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "Maisie"
Ok lets take these two for example. OK so here goes:
1. In the Lindy world can they declare themselves PRO?
2. If they do will people laugh at them?
3. Would they be allowed to compete as amateurs at a lindyhop event? And if so then which one?
4. Do you think they would move like BALLROOMERS doing lindyHOP?
And I do believe that a major costume change would be in order. You know some of these latin fashions are horribly unattractive.
No
I am already laughing at them
Anyone can compete at an amateur
Probably
I may not live there anymore, but my dancing feet will always be from L.A.
Originally posted Wednesday, May 6, 2009 (3 years ago)
I think the better question is How does someone become a professional lindy dancer? Also since I consider myself a person who dances for fun. I am not sure if I would be comfortable at my first lindy competition if a professional ballroom or salsa dancer were in the line up with me dancing as a newbie. In fact that wouldn't make it fun at all.
Originally posted Wednesday, May 6, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "Oli" I think the better question is How does someone become a professional lindy dancer? Also since I consider myself a person who dances for fun. I am not sure if I would be comfortable at my first lindy competition if a professional ballroom or salsa dancer were in the line up with me dancing as a newbie. In fact that wouldn't make it fun at all.
But then you would see them try and lindy hop...and would probably be rolling on the floor giggling.
I may not live there anymore, but my dancing feet will always be from L.A.
Originally posted Wednesday, May 6, 2009 (3 years ago)
Redshoes,
We both know people who are happy to laugh all the way to the bank. As with everything else, its easy to market yourself as a big fish (in this case, a professional lindy hop instructor) if you never plan to leave small ponds.
Its similar to those who actively seek out small national competitions where they know they'll be the only entrant in an intermediate division just to add "national lindy hop champion" after their name.
It doesn't mean they'd hold their own at ILHC or ULHC, or even have the skill to rock a jam circle at a major exchange or regional event, but that's not their concern, its just a marketing ploy to lure in paying newbies or get teaching gigs in small, out of the way scenes that wouldn't normally attract a Carly Heiney or Nick Williams.
As much as we don't like it, "Professional" can have totally different meanings depending on who is using the term; it all comes down to personal ethics.
Originally posted Wednesday, May 6, 2009 (3 years ago)
I've defined "professional" to simply mean they get paid to do it, it's their job (def 2 in Webster's). Even if they like their job, it's still mostly done because it's their job.
In contrast with "amateur" to simply mean they do it as a pastime, a hobby (def 1 in Webster's). They do it for the sake of doing it.
As to which is better skilled then the other, the terms for me are only suggestive or implicative, not definitive. Someone who does something as their job, as their profession is more likely to have the means and motivation (they can work on it "full time") to achieve a greater level of skill then the amateur (who has some other job and so probably can only train "part time"). The amateur that wishes to excel beyond a given point may find they need to quit their day job and practice full time...and since they still need to eat that likely means they need to find someone to pay them to do so, thus becoming professional.
But that's only a generalization. In most any skill that's taken up as a pastime you'll find plenty of examples of amateurs who exceed the abilities of professionals.
Anyway, it makes the question of "how to become a professional dancer?" very easy to answer: Find someone that will pay you to dance. How you manage that feat is the bigger question that many have been answering.
Well, not exactly answering: Most have been answering how to become a professional dance instructor rather then a professional dancer. The latter profession is a whole other can of worms.
I'd make a very distinct definition difference between professional "dancer", "dance instructor", "dance coach/trainer", "coreographer", etc. The title applies to what you are paid to do. For example there are a great many professional dance instructors who can't really be called professional dancers as no one is paying them to dance as such (they aren't dancing in a paid show or winning significant prize money), they are being paid to teach others to dance. It's the same reason we don't call a football coach a "professional football player".
Originally posted Wednesday, May 6, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "billy bakelite"
As much as we don't like it, "Professional" can have totally different meanings depending on who is using the term; it all comes down to personal ethics.
Now if I had nickel for every time I heard the word NATIONAL CHAMPION, then I would have more money than Oprah herself. And I do wish we could see more of it in the dance business but we never will. And that is why we have boring dance oranizations and rule books that read like encyclopedias etc etc etc. So where can the rules be found for the competitions? And it is not like I will spend hours reading them but it is good to know. Are all the contests that end in the letters HC grouped together? I am already familair with what an Exhcnage is. This much I know for I have been to a past dance at the freedom plaza event. As a guest held hostage. I nearly had my limbs ripped of but it was enjoyable. I am confused though about TRY OUTs for exhanges. And also what level the jam circle divsion takes place in. I was told by private message that one can enter as a Newcommer.
Originally posted Wednesday, May 6, 2009 (3 years ago)
I'm not sure what all the confusion is about. As Zenin and others have suggested, professional means you get paid for doing something. If you want to drill down and say "Well, they don't make their entire living doing that" fine, you have room to call someone a semi-pro.
Not all professionals are created equally. If you look at graphic designers, I know some who make 10 an hour, and some that bill at 450 an hour. They are both professional designers if that is what they do. But clearly, there is a huge difference between the two.
Professional doesn't necessarily mean better. And you could be great at something (as good as any professional) and simply not choose to make your living at it.
Originally posted Thursday, May 7, 2009 (3 years ago)
Quoted from "fiddletree" If the dancer's primary source of income is dance related, and that income is enough to support the person (shelter, food, travel, clothing, etc), I would say they are a professional dancer.
This does NOT always mean they are good dancers themselves, but that they are good at marketing themselves. There are plenty of 'local' dancers around the world who make their living off of teaching dance classes, but don't travel elsewhere to dance or teach. Technically they are professional dancers. Then, there are the fabulous dancers that we all know and love who teach all over the world and generally kick a s. Some of them have other employment that makes up most of their income, others don't. I guess that is where the line gets fuzzy.
Well what I really enjoy about the lindy places is that the instructors generally know what they are doing. And the prices always seem to be fair. I am just confused by there process of becoming professional or what have you. But you bring up a very good point in with Marketing. So people may declares themselves as professional to market classes. But then that confuses new dancers about competitions. Oh an you mention a place where things get FUZZY. There do seem to be serveral FUZZY areas with this process. So how do you know who or what is competing where and in what level at the competitions? I am still confused by how the lindy comeptitions work. As for me I am bronze ballroom student and that is how I competed in the past. It is always very clear who the teacher is etc and who the students are. And I should also say that I have been attending the occasioal social lindy hop since 2005. I spectate and watch where I can and I still can't figure out how everything works. And it is very hard to find an event that looks beginner friendly. The only thing that I have learned for sure thus far is that lindy is fun and there are not many rules. And that many lindy hoppers dress poorly and some don't wear deordorant.
Professional Lindy Hoppers
I am curious to know the definition of a proffessional lindy hop dancer. and the swing talk forum can be so dull. I have been going through different pages and I am more interested in current opinion on the subject.
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pro fes sion al (pr -f sh' -n l):
why would that definition change for a lindy hopper?
Usually the dance community adds something like "primary source of income".
i.e. although I make a bit of money each year teaching dance, it is only supplementary income and I don't live on it. It doesn't even pay for my dancing habit. :) In the few places I have seen definitions (such as "Pro vs. Open" competitions) I have never fit the definition of a "pro".
I think a fair line I have seen drawn is whether over half your income is from dance and dance related activities, although this might actually rule out a few people who really are pros, but work full or part-time jobs that are more lucrative than the dance.
While I may be a professional DJ, DJing is not my profession.
This is where the term "Semi-Pro" comes in handy.
I wouldn't call it a defining factor in the "necessary and sufficient characteristics" model of defining a word, but...
The majority of lindy dancers/instructors regarded by the lindy community as professional have at least one or two "top three" awards in major competitions like ALHC or ULHC.
Perhaps you can call that something along the lines of an institutional definition, like Dickie and Danto's Artworld model for defining the word "art" - If other artists consider you an artist, you're an artist. If other artists consider the snow shovels you bought at the hardware store and mounted on pedestals "art" then they are art. Otherwise you are not an artist and what you do isn't art.
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having" - V
If the dancer's primary source of income is dance related, and that income is enough to support the person (shelter, food, travel, clothing, etc), I would say they are a professional dancer.
This does NOT always mean they are good dancers themselves, but that they are good at marketing themselves. There are plenty of 'local' dancers around the world who make their living off of teaching dance classes, but don't travel elsewhere to dance or teach. Technically they are professional dancers. Then, there are the fabulous dancers that we all know and love who teach all over the world and generally kick a s. Some of them have other employment that makes up most of their income, others don't. I guess that is where the line gets fuzzy.
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
What is that saying? It is in the eye of the beholder? Exchanges I have went to in the past require tryouts for advanced classes. Personally I think this is crap for two reasons. First off, Frankie Manning himself commented on how having masters level classes for lindy hop is a bit ridiculous. This dance is a creative dance. Yes, there are basic connection issues and basic steps you need to learn, but if you can intertwine all that with awesome musicality then you will be considered an awesome dancer to others.
Secondly, all the people I saw get turned down in the advanced tryouts were good solid dancers and the ones that were pretty blah or even no good got picked. So, I think to be considered an expert or professional to people of the lindy society merely depends on the style of lindy that is popular today. If you look at lindy competitions from the 90s and those of the 2000ish area today, there is a distinct difference is style. If you are still dancing like they did in the 90s, chances are you won't get very far in a national competition because they are looking for a particular style.
I agree with the person that commented saying one that markets themself very well will be considered a professional in the lindy world. Or any profession for that matter.
I feel that I encounter many opinions about professional dancers on this board that are unfair, as in the attractive professionals thread. I would have agreed with many of these views say ten years ago, but the world of dance is ever changing and lindy is fast becoming more widespread and accepted in broader dance competitions and media venues.
I occassionally get hired to perform so I refer to myself as a part-time semi-professional Lindy Hopper.
I disagree with you on the "unfairness" of our characterization of ballroom professionals. This is Yehoodi, the website for the hardcore hep-cat swinger. For our definition of lindy hop professionals, I suggest you go on you-tube and search for the ILHC pro division, and pretty much any ULHS footage. Notice that they do not move like the ballroom professionals dancing lindyhop. This is not because the lindy hop dancers are not pros - it is because the ballroom professionals are generally ghastly lindy hoppers.
Sweeping generalization much?
Just a note- in most dance worlds---ballroom or otherwise, one can simply "declare" themselves a pro. . .does this mean they are good? certainly not.
Fiddletree and Roxi both made points that boil down to:
"Just cause you're good don't mean you're a pro; and just cause you're a pro don't mean you're good."
I think, strictly speaking, the economic answers are more to the point.
If by "professional" one simply means "very good" and the question becomes: what defines a "very good" dancer? . . . well that's a whole nuther can of worms.
In the Lindy world, you can't just declare yourself a pro. If you do, people will laugh at you. Did you even bother to look at the examples of pro lindy I suggested? The muscle movement necessary for good lindy is very different than ballroom movement. I made my "sweeping overgeneralization" based on watching very good ballroom pros attempt to lindy on national tv. They danced, but to call it lindy is a stretch. Please educate yourself before calling me out again.
I'm not using the term "ballroom professional". I take my lessons from dance professionals. A dance professional can teach more than one style. I have been to spectate at closed lindy hop events, similar to the ones you mentioned. In my opinion, I have seen that skill level matched at NDCA and USA Dance events.
Again, I suggest that you seek out footage of ILHC and UHLS. Not something "similar to", but those events. Because the only way you'll ever see lindy danced at that level is if those people decide to show up at an "open" event. And if you still can't see the difference, there's nothing I can do or say that will explain it to you.
since this is somewhat of a Lindy and Swing Forum, i believe that the discussion of the differences between ballroom and Lindy instructors is not entirely pertinent. However, Professional Ballroom Dancers are generally considered those at the highest level of competition, such as the US Championships in Orlando this year, and who charge the big bucks for a lesson with them.
Similarly, Professional Lindy Hoppers are those who often compete at the highest levels of competitions, such as ILHC, or ULHS, and ALHC, and travel around the nation and the world to teach Lindy Hop.
The bottom line is that these people are payed large amounts of money for their teaching, and people bring them in to teach from around the world.
I agree with Redshoes. Being a 'dance professional' does absolutely NOT make you a good lindy hopper.
Pretty much all the lindy hoppers I know who teach other kinds of dance are lindy hoppers first, and then teach the other dances to bring in the cash. I have never encountered anyone who is primarily a ballroom (or any other non-lindy dance) dancer who I would consider remotely qualified to teach lindy hop.
Zsa, please PLEASE go watch the videos mentioned by redshoes and tell us what you think.
follow my adventures at www.AppalachianToAlpine.blogspot.com!
I also agree with the sentiments here. Check out the lindy footage that's available from ULHS and ILHC. It's on youtube, and very easy to find.
Note that we're not saying those dance pros from other styles are bad dancers; they're just not good lindy hoppers. Lindy hop is difficult for any ballroom or latin dancer to master; it's movement, posture, etc. are completely at odds with what dancers of most other styles learn. It takes a lot of time and effort to really learn passable lindy, and frankly most ballroom pros don't bother. They may know the basic steps, but they don't know the how or the why to make those steps work. Unfortunately, it's not something they can fake, and it's not something they can get through by virtue of their other fantastic dance technique.
MB
PS - It goes both ways. Even the best lindy hoppers can't hope to fake it through a latin or ballroom dance unless they've invested the time to learn the very different style. If you search around here a bit, you'll find a few threads about just how hard that is. Rewarding, certainly, but hard .
Well I am more curious to know what opinions are out there. Now Zsa I know that you feel some are unfair but that is not what we are talking about.
I may not live there anymore, but my dancing feet will always be from L.A.
She looks like she is pooping a bunch of feathers out of her butt.
A clip of them dancing Lindy might more helpful than encouraging people to guess.
I think the better question is How does someone become a professional lindy dancer? Also since I consider myself a person who dances for fun. I am not sure if I would be comfortable at my first lindy competition if a professional ballroom or salsa dancer were in the line up with me dancing as a newbie. In fact that wouldn't make it fun at all.
But then you would see them try and lindy hop...and would probably be rolling on the floor giggling.
I may not live there anymore, but my dancing feet will always be from L.A.
Redshoes,
We both know people who are happy to laugh all the way to the bank. As with everything else, its easy to market yourself as a big fish (in this case, a professional lindy hop instructor) if you never plan to leave small ponds.
Its similar to those who actively seek out small national competitions where they know they'll be the only entrant in an intermediate division just to add "national lindy hop champion" after their name.
It doesn't mean they'd hold their own at ILHC or ULHC, or even have the skill to rock a jam circle at a major exchange or regional event, but that's not their concern, its just a marketing ploy to lure in paying newbies or get teaching gigs in small, out of the way scenes that wouldn't normally attract a Carly Heiney or Nick Williams.
As much as we don't like it, "Professional" can have totally different meanings depending on who is using the term; it all comes down to personal ethics.
I've defined "professional" to simply mean they get paid to do it, it's their job (def 2 in Webster's). Even if they like their job, it's still mostly done because it's their job.
In contrast with "amateur" to simply mean they do it as a pastime, a hobby (def 1 in Webster's). They do it for the sake of doing it.
As to which is better skilled then the other, the terms for me are only suggestive or implicative, not definitive. Someone who does something as their job, as their profession is more likely to have the means and motivation (they can work on it "full time") to achieve a greater level of skill then the amateur (who has some other job and so probably can only train "part time"). The amateur that wishes to excel beyond a given point may find they need to quit their day job and practice full time...and since they still need to eat that likely means they need to find someone to pay them to do so, thus becoming professional.
But that's only a generalization. In most any skill that's taken up as a pastime you'll find plenty of examples of amateurs who exceed the abilities of professionals.
Anyway, it makes the question of "how to become a professional dancer?" very easy to answer: Find someone that will pay you to dance. How you manage that feat is the bigger question that many have been answering.
Well, not exactly answering: Most have been answering how to become a professional dance instructor rather then a professional dancer. The latter profession is a whole other can of worms.
I'd make a very distinct definition difference between professional "dancer", "dance instructor", "dance coach/trainer", "coreographer", etc. The title applies to what you are paid to do. For example there are a great many professional dance instructors who can't really be called professional dancers as no one is paying them to dance as such (they aren't dancing in a paid show or winning significant prize money), they are being paid to teach others to dance. It's the same reason we don't call a football coach a "professional football player".
Now if I had nickel for every time I heard the word NATIONAL CHAMPION, then I would have more money than Oprah herself. And I do wish we could see more of it in the dance business but we never will. And that is why we have boring dance oranizations and rule books that read like encyclopedias etc etc etc. So where can the rules be found for the competitions? And it is not like I will spend hours reading them but it is good to know. Are all the contests that end in the letters HC grouped together? I am already familair with what an Exhcnage is. This much I know for I have been to a past dance at the freedom plaza event. As a guest held hostage. I nearly had my limbs ripped of but it was enjoyable. I am confused though about TRY OUTs for exhanges. And also what level the jam circle divsion takes place in. I was told by private message that one can enter as a Newcommer.
I'm not sure what all the confusion is about. As Zenin and others have suggested, professional means you get paid for doing something. If you want to drill down and say "Well, they don't make their entire living doing that" fine, you have room to call someone a semi-pro.
Not all professionals are created equally. If you look at graphic designers, I know some who make 10 an hour, and some that bill at 450 an hour. They are both professional designers if that is what they do. But clearly, there is a huge difference between the two.
Professional doesn't necessarily mean better. And you could be great at something (as good as any professional) and simply not choose to make your living at it.
Well what I really enjoy about the lindy places is that the instructors generally know what they are doing. And the prices always seem to be fair. I am just confused by there process of becoming professional or what have you. But you bring up a very good point in with Marketing. So people may declares themselves as professional to market classes. But then that confuses new dancers about competitions. Oh an you mention a place where things get FUZZY. There do seem to be serveral FUZZY areas with this process. So how do you know who or what is competing where and in what level at the competitions? I am still confused by how the lindy comeptitions work. As for me I am bronze ballroom student and that is how I competed in the past. It is always very clear who the teacher is etc and who the students are. And I should also say that I have been attending the occasioal social lindy hop since 2005. I spectate and watch where I can and I still can't figure out how everything works. And it is very hard to find an event that looks beginner friendly. The only thing that I have learned for sure thus far is that lindy is fun and there are not many rules. And that many lindy hoppers dress poorly and some don't wear deordorant.
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